Pirate treasures

[chucklindsey]

If it was a "war ship" it technically belongs to the country of origin. Spain is kinda picky about there loot. But you could retain salvage rights if all critera are met.

Good information reguarding Territorial seas however not all countires claim the same distance from shore. Few have Contiguous Zones, they group them together that is something the US does it was created during the cold war. There is an international agreement as to how far a countries Territorial water can extend Ask Omar Kadafi what happens when you claim more

This is one of the oldest laws on Maritime record there are many details. If an insurance claim as filed there is also possibility the firm holds the rights.

The bottom line is this; if its old and you found it, as long as you can reasonably salvage it you have the rights to charge what you want for the salvage. It doesnt mean you can keep the booty, but you could hold untill an agreement was made. Some areas will vary and changes to the law are constantly being attempted.

why am I picturing Jessica Alba half naked while, im typing this??

 

[ocbeachbum]

Step 1. Get a detailed chart and see if there are any known wrecks/shoals/fishing spots/shipping lanes at or near your coordinates. If any of the aforementioned things are there, you'll probably get caught.
Step 2. Assess how many people know your current location. If it is more than 4-6. Someone will screw up and you will probably get caught.
Step 3. Assess how many of them can keep their mouths shut. If the answer is < all of them, you'll probably get caught. (A good rule of thumb is: a secret known by more than 1 person is automatically compromised)
Step 4. If the wreck/cargo is Spanish, they'll fight like crazed wildebeests to take every doubloon from you, so make sure they don't find out.
Step 5. Get in contact with a salvage lawyer and a shipbroker to get the gear to start hauling up the booty. If you can't get them to sign a nondisclosure agreement, they'll talk and you'll probably get caught.
Step 6. See step 4.
Step 7. Be prepared to spend the next 10 years in court, spending lots of money, because assuming you pull off 1-6, in the end, you will still probably get caught and have to fight to keep the salvage, if you're not just thrown in Mexican or Belizean jail.

Total times this has succeeded for the salver can almost be counted on the fingers of one head.

 

[Gilldiver]

The simple answer is "No One Really Knows."

A lot of salvage law is being tested in a Tampa court right now. Do a search for "Odyssey Marine Exploration" and "Black swan"

In the real world for divers:

• If it is within 12 miles, its theirs
• If it is between 12 and 24 miles - it might be theirs depending on national laws.

In the US there are no overall laws about wrecks in the 12 to 24 mile range. The Abandoned Shipwreck Act only covers Sate waters which extend out only 3 miles.

• Between 24 to 200 miles - No one knows as the courts have never said what the Law of the Sea means. Right now it seems to be limited to oil, mining, and fishing rights.
  
• Outside of 200 miles is open except that the UN group UNESCO has passed the Convention on Underwater Cultural Heritage which grabbed it all. But only the nations that have signed on are required to implement it.

If you take a look at who has signed up, it is almost a joke:
1 Panama 20/05/2003 Ratification
2 Bulgaria 06/10/2003 Ratification
3 Croatia 01/12/2004 Ratification
4 Spain 06/06/2005 Ratification
5 Libya 23/06/2005 Ratification
6 Nigeria 21/10/2005 Ratification
7 Lithuania 12/06/2006 Ratification
8 Mexico 05/07/2006 Ratification
9 Paraguay 07/09/2006 Ratification
10 Portugal 21/09/2006 Ratification
11 Ecuador 01/12/2006 Ratification
12 Ukraine 27/12/2006 Ratification
13 Lebanon 08/01/2007 Acceptance
14 St Lucia 01/02/2007 Ratification
15 Romania 31/07/2007 Acceptance
16 Cambodia 24/11/2007 Ratification
17 Cuba 26/05/2008 Ratification
18 Montenegro18/07/2008 Ratification
19 Slovenia 18/09/2008 Ratification
20 Barbados 02/10/2008 Acceptance

Sovereign warships are immune from all international laws per the Law of the Sea as long as they are "on non-commercial service" at the time they were lost, What this means seems to be one of the biggest things being reviewed in the Black Swan case in Tampa. The problem for Spain is that almost all of the galleons up through about 1840 were carrying a mixed cargo of national and private cargo (treasure). So if the Tampa case finds that the majority of the cargo is commercial and warships with commercial cargo are not immune, then they loose big all over the world.

The other thing about Spain's ships is that those lost in Central and South America tend to be within national waters of the former Spanish colonies and many of those former colonies are telling Spain to take a hike, the wrecks are in their waters etc.

Last, Nations have free lawyers, you don't. They can just spend you till you are broke.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Spain fights hard for what it considers it's treasures since they have nothing that isn't stolen from someone else when it comes to treasure. Murder, rape, and robbery are much easier than working for something. Only now they use lawyers to do their dirty work and try to screw those who do take risks to recover things.

 

[jeffchandler1]

Thanks for the tip!!! What's your boat name again?

 

[Jumpinghorse]

Husband and I worked in the salvage industry for a spell and let me tell you how complicated things are. No matter what is written there will always be someone out there to fight you for it. If you smuggle it or rob it from a site, you might as well take a huge value loss right then. Now days the historical value is just as great as the payout. If you have no name to the wreck from which it was taken from then there is no way to verify the artifact. Then it goes on the black market at a bad value and history is lost forever. You can get investors, archeologist, eco scientist and a crew or you could work up a deal with an existing salvage company with experience and lawyers, take your cut and run.

 

[Ixy]

Found this It is an article stating the issues of salvaging search google "Ocean Salvage Laws" Should come up with rms-republic. This thing won't let me post a url.

Well if you don't want to read it i'll paraphrase the thing. Basically when salvaging a vessel, title still exists with the original property owner. If the ship is owned by a government the title still exists and they can claim it, unless there is certain circumstances. Salvage rights are based off of two laws, the law of salvage and The Law of Finds

The law of salvage is based on that salvage is a service which compensates the salvaging entity or person to compensation depending on value, risk, skill, depth and other factors this can run from 0%-50% or more of value. Basically you are taking the initiative to reclaim someone elses property which they didn't hire you for. Most salvaging entities and persons tend to think in the terms of the later the law of finds.

The Law of Finds or the finders keepers law. States on the fact the one that finds this has claim and title over thus said property. This will only work as long as the title holder expresses publicly that they have abandoned their property (Very doubtful seeing that government titles exist as long as the government exists). Second if the wreck is claimed from an "Ancient shipwreck" (or my speculation, if unable to identify the wreck) and no one comes forward to claim the contents or wreck itself.

So to be safe use the Law of Finds first and use the Law of Salvage to be compensated secondly.

 

[nautilusvideo]

Therefore finders keepers. Depending on how big of a haul it is. If it's a big haul then it's time to get the gps coordinates, go back and rent your own boat, and then figure out how to get it back home. All countries will try to claim anything you work for. Figuring out how to keep what you found, and get away with it is very tough. It is not fair but that's the way governments work.

You wouldn't mind posting your address would you? That way if I find a car, camper or something else of value in your yard that looks like it's not in use I can take it home with me.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

If it's buried under 30 feet of earth or beneath my septic tank be my guest. Or if it was there because someone LONG DEAD who STOLE it from someone else left it and you are willing to RISK YOUR LIFE AND HEALTH AND MONEY to recover it BE MY GUEST! All this crap about historical value is just that. It only has historical value because someone went to the trouble to research, explore, and find it. Otherwise it would still just be hidden objects that no one would ever see. At least this way someone will get to see it. And the finders would be rewarded for their efforts instead of demonized. If the "historians" are so concerned let them do the actual work. Put up their own money, get the training, risk their lives and safety, and do some actual labor for a change instead of riding the coat tails of the actual explorers. They are all so high and mighty sitting on their lazy butts preaching about "historical value" and "archaeological signifigance" when the truth is that no one, especially governments, gives a rat's behind about any of that.

What they care about is how much money they can realize from the finds. Researchers can get more government money to study and document and then hide away these objects from public view in the basements and vaults of museums and universities where they can only be seen by more moochers of taxpayer dollars.

Commercial companies on the other hand can display them for everyone to see and make a profit. Those with the funds can have their own piece of history sitting on their mantle. These coins and gold bars and jewels were most likely gotten by murder, rape, robbery, and plunder. The ships they were on and the crews that sailed them did not dig them up, refine and cast them. The goverments and churches who took them from those who did have no claim, any more than Jesse James' ancestors have to the money he stole. The peoples who were destroyed are long gone, those who put in the effort to find it are not. Hard work results in great rewards for anyone willing to undertake it. To deny them of those rewards is pure and simple ignorant and evil. No work- no reward.

 

[nautilusvideo]

If the "historians" are so concerned let them do the actual work. Put up their own money, get the training, risk their lives and safety, and do some actual labor for a change instead of riding the coat tails of the actual explorers. They are all so high and mighty sitting on their lazy butts preaching about "historical value" and "archaeological signifigance" when the truth is that no one, especially governments, gives a rat's behind about any of that.

Jim as the project videographer on the Blackbeard Shipwreck Project I'd like to extend a personal invitation to you to visit the North Carolina Maritime Museum (North Carolina Maritime Museum - Homepage) in Beaufort and see the Blackbeard exhibit. For 11 years archaeologists, historians, conservators and volunteers have have been diving on and recovering artifacts from Blackbeard's flagship the Queen Anne's Revenge (The Queen Anne's Revenge Shipwreck Project - Archaeological Investigations of Blackbeard's Flagship) for public display in the museum. Visitors can see these treasures, including what's left of his gold, free of charge and learn about Blackbeard the pirate and his ship. Also, the North Carolina Museum of History will open the exhibit "Knights of the Black Flag" (NC Museum of History: What's Going On - Press Releases) next month which will include the most recent discoveries from the wreck site. And if you would like to see video clips from the actual wreck site visit (http://www.nautilusproductions.com/new_site/QAR1_footage.html). We look forward to seeing you in North Carolina!