Peeing in my wetsuit attracts shark ?

[Luku]

"Especially when the Oceanics are seen arching their backs and lowering their pectoral fins."

This is a common misconception and grates at my ears when I hear it. It seems everytime I hear of someone new seeing a shark, they include the line "and it dropped it pec fins and arched its back."

The Scientific Advisory Committee for this Foundation.

Facts on the Shark Foundation

The quote: "Potentially dangerous species. Galapagos sharks perform a "hunch" threat display, with an arched back, raised head, and lowered caudal and pectoral fins, while swimming in a conspicuous twisting, rolling motion."

Galapagos shark (Carcharhinus galapagensis)

Oceanic Whitetips display a similar behavior, I've personally seen it.

Please support your claim that this is a "common misconception".

In fact, if anything is attracting the oceanics to the blackwater dives, it is the presence of the boat itself.

I agree that the boat "could" attract, but are you going to swim 3-5 miles out to do a Blackwater dive? The boat is one part of the equation that kind of needs to stay, rowboat maybe, seaplane?

You seem to have an agenda against peeing in wetsuits.

No agenda, so long as I don't have to walk in their pee when they take their wetsuits off on-board the boat.

Other things attracting sharks:

Photo flashes - possibly, but people aren't going to spend $150 - $200 bucks on a dive if they can't take some photos.

Tank banging - the DM's I know just wiggle lights at customers to get their attention.

Wiggling lights - possibly, but most people aren't going to do a night dive in the middle of the Pacific with out a dive light.

 

[sailingk8]

A couple of points:

Stop pissing in the ocean - polluters! (totally kidding!)

Has anyone actually read that a shark attacked because an individual had a pee in the ocean? Hell maybe that's why all those shark are attacking the swimmers at the beach! You know, all those people who surreptitiously wander in thigh deep just to have a pee. Sharks just LOVE that! Yum! "Hey Bruce, this one's all yours Mate!"

A lot of things attract shark but it's what they think when they get there that counts and what kind of shark they are (I personally would not trust a Oceanic to not have a taste were I out in the middle of the ocean, on the surface and say flailing about, pissing myself with fear. It's a big ocean, not many baby whale left. "Oh look is that a baby whale flailing about over there?)

Face it, if you're in the water with a shark whether or not you have a pee isn't really going to make much difference. Shark don't like the taste of people. Yes they some times have a nibble or an out right mouthful but that is because they get confused, (ate too much sushi the night before and not quite thinking straight today).
"Oops damn, just took a bite of that human garbage again! Bruce ya bastard, why didn't you warn me that wasn't a seal!"

 

[smellzlikefish]

Your agenda:

" Now about peeing in wetsuits in general, I'm not going to make many friends with this but it's been my experience that when people pee in their wetsuits, their wetsuits stink, the fluids running down the boat deck when they take their wetsuits off stinks, makes the boat stink, and they stink afterwards too...you can say it's just gross IMO...sorry pee people. "

This is non-negotiable as you have presented your bias.

Your sources

I applaud your attempts to learn something by going straight to the experts. Any organization headed up by Dr. Compagno, Dr. Mahmood, and the Guy Harvey Research Institute is a-okay. I’m afraid you may have misread their information and/or didn’t get the whole story.

What you describe is a “threat display” initiated by an animal that is threatened, not one that is hungry. There is a big difference in displays (Barlow 1974, Johnson and Nelson, 1973). The urine in the water could potentially contribute to attracting a shark that has food on its mind. Sharks, however, have no reason to swim up to a boat in the blue to start displaying threat postures. The gray reef sharks in these studies had territories on the reef that they were protecting from the potential threat of the divers, but then, gray reef sharks don’t move around very much. Unless you jumped into the water on top of an oceanic whitetip, I doubt very much that it felt threatened.

As for your claim that you saw one do it, I’m sorry but anyone who dares someone to go swimming with the Galapagos sharks at Haleiwa does not constitute a credible source on interpreting shark behavior.

My sources

These are the original, peer-reviewed papers on which your web sites are based. I have others if you are interested, but these are the foundational papers describing that behavior while also making a clear distinction between feeding and responding to an intruder.

Barlow, G. 1974. Derivation of Threat Display in the Gray Reef Shark. Marine Behavior Physiology. 3: 71-81.

Johnson, R. and Nelson, D. 1973. Agonistic display in the gray reef shark, Carcharhinus menisorrah, and its relationship to attacks on man. Copeia. 76-84.

 

[Luku]

Your agenda:

" Now about peeing in wetsuits in general, I'm not going to make many friends with this but it's been my experience that when people pee in their wetsuits, their wetsuits stink, the fluids running down the boat deck when they take their wetsuits off stinks, makes the boat stink, and they stink afterwards too...you can say it's just gross IMO...sorry pee people. "

This is non-negotiable as you have presented your bias.

Actually that’s not an agenda; it is neither a list, nor plan of things to do. It is simply an observation of my experiences and my personal opinion. A bias, so what, I expressed it as an opinion (that’s what IMO (In My Opinion) means btw (by the way)). I’m not sure of the reason behind the accusation, pretty much everyone on SB (ScubaBoard) has an opinion.

I applaud your attempts to learn something by going straight to the experts. Any organization headed up by Dr. Compagno, Dr. Mahmood, and the Guy Harvey Research Institute is a-okay.

Good to know it meets with your approval; I was worried there for a few.

Unless you jumped into the water on top of an oceanic whitetip, I doubt very much that it felt threatened.

Thanks for your opinion. Personally I’ll err on the side of caution unless you have a source to back up that claim.

My sources
These are the original, peer-reviewed papers on which your web sites are based. I have others if you are interested, but these are the foundational papers describing that behavior while also making a clear distinction between feeding and responding to an intruder.
Barlow, G. 1974. Derivation of Threat Display in the Gray Reef Shark. Marine Behavior Physiology. 3: 71-81.
Johnson, R. and Nelson, D. 1973. Agonistic display in the gray reef shark, Carcharhinus menisorrah, and its relationship to attacks on man. Copeia. 76-84.

I don’t have time to sift through pages of reports to back up a claim YOU made, just find me something like, “when a shark is hunched and its pecs are down (threat display), it is perfectly safe to be in the water with them it’s simply a "common misconception" that they are dangerous ” find me something similar and I’ll believe you.
In the meantime I’ll interpret a “threat display” like for any other animal, and steer clear of them; in a shark’s case, I’ll "back down" and get out of the water.

When a larger or more dominant animal makes a threat display, a younger or more submissive animal usually backs down, and violence is averted. A low growl accompanied by a stare is an unmistakable threat display used by many large mammals. A common threat display for the dog is a low growl, with ears laid back and teeth bared. Cats have a threat display also: they stare, make a low growling sound, and adopt a posture that indicates they may attack. If seriously threatened, they hiss, arch their backs, and fluff their fur in the classic "cat fight" posture. Such a display might be considered a fear display as much as a threat display. Fear and threat displays are often similar.

Threat, Fear, and Intention movements | in Chapter 08: Animals | from Psychology: An Introduction by Russ Dewey

 

[smellzlikefish]

I'm familiar with TLA's (three letter acronyms), but if you have a bias (or an opinion) that directly conflicts with your opinion on the topic, your argument appears to others as irrational and self-serving.

On the valid points: Once again you seem to be misinterpreting what you read. If a shark makes a threat display, you should move away. We are in agreement. Our argument is in the circumstances under which the display occurs. Now I'll read for you so you can hopefully learn something from all this without having to work too hard.

"sharks may attack a swimmer for reasons other than hunger...The shark is territorial and may be responding to a diver as an intruder."-Barlow, 1974 First paragraph of paper

For more information:
"This display has been observed in sharks apparently in conflict between approaching and withdrawing from a diver. The display is increasingly likely, or given in a more fully developed form, as the escape route of the shark is progressively more cut off. Similar threat displays occur in related sharks under comparable conditions."-Barlow, 1974 First paragraph, second section.

He goes on to talk for a while about how the display is likely an interspecies communication and that it is likely evolutionarily derived from a feeding response. However nowhere is it mentioned that these warnings occur before feeding. Again, it is not prudent to warn an animal before you dine on them.

 

[Theunis]

I did 33 non-caged shark dives on the Protea Banks, KwaZulu-Natal, SA during the last few years and have seen many Bull, Tiger and other species of sharks. Only once did I see a Bull shark arching its back and lowering its pectorals. This Bull was agitated and made a few vertical descends and ascends while displaying its arched back and lowered pecs. We were ascending after a 40 meter dive and still had deco obligations. Getting out was not an option. Furthermore getting out of the area is not an option due to the fact that these dives are all drift dives in a current moving at 3 to 4 knots...you can't go anywhere.

Getting back to urinating in your wetsuit.....I don't know if this attracts sharks or not, but I do know that divers who do urinate in their wetsuits stinks! I was wondering, do you also urinate in dry-suits?

 

[fisheater]

Getting back to urinating in your wetsuit.....I don't know if this attracts sharks or not, but I do know that divers who do urinate in their wetsuits stinks! I was wondering, do you also urinate in dry-suits?

Heck yes! That's what pee valves are for.

 

[BigBothersom]

It doesn't matter in some places, but if you are trying to do a "Blackwater" or "Pelagic Magic" dive it could matter, meaning if to many sharks show up on those dives it gets canceled. Those particular dives aren't cheap to go on, and there is usually no refund. Divers are warned ahead of time. So reducing the chances of sharks showing up is important to some Divemasters.

If a divemaster canceled my dive trip because 'too many sharks showed up' I'd use his ass as chum for the next dive. I go to Palau every year, and I go for one reason...to dive with sharks and mantas, and as many of them as possible.
Oh, and for the record, I'm against chumming and shark feeding.
I'll say it again, I don't believe for a second that sharks are attracted to our urine. I've been peeing around them for years.
Sharks didn't survive millions of years ('thousands' to our creationist friends) by being stupid.

 

[Peter_C]

I'll say it again, I don't believe for a second that sharks are attracted to our urine. I've been peeing around them for years.

Have you tried that theory around a Great White shark yet, the only routine mammal eating shark

I too believe my pee-valve in my drysuit is awesome! What better way to hopefully one day catch a glimpse of a Great White shark.

 

[smellzlikefish]

"Have you tried that theory around a Great White shark yet, the only routine mammal eating shark"

Are they? We don't really know what they're eating when the California populations heads out to the middle of the Pacific, and I read one article (based on pure speculation) that they might even attack giant squids.

For some variety, Galapagos Sharks in the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands are known to crowd the beaches during monk seal pupping season for mammals, too.