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Paying for the privilege of working

Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba' started by DeepSeaDan, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. lv2dive

    lv2dive Formerly known as KatePNAtl

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Lake City, FL
    2,795
    2,086
    Supply and Demand. If there was not enough of a demand the supply would dry up. Simple. 'Nuff said.
     
  2. oldschoolto

    oldschoolto Regular of the Pub

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: maine
    2,493
    1,805
    I guess you never talked to a DOCTOR / SURGEON on paying for school... Or working for free after paying for school.... Then working for pennies on the dollar for the last year or so...

    Jim....
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  3. DaleC

    DaleC Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Leftcoast of Canada
    4,981
    2,325
    The problem is that the training agancy targets new divers who don't know any better. Put a 2 year and 200 dive pre requisite on the course and see what happens.

    As a Rehab assist I did 500 unpaid practicum hours after also paying for the course. I did not pay the employer where I did the practicum. I also expected my school to support my attempts to find paid work afterwards. What would you say if that school made me pay to do the practicum, and then created a situation where potential jobs were filled by volunteer or other upcoming practicum students. Would you be miffed at that school?
     
  4. jbark

    jbark Contributor

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Michigan
    95
    38
    Supply and Demand is the guiding principle but its not quite how you stated it IMO:

    A. There is an oversupply of DMs wanting to work compared to the demand for DMs as such the demand price(DM paycheck) is kept low.

    B. While at the same time there is a healthy demand for DM training and the supply of training opportunities keeps pace with the demand at the demand(course fees) price.

    B exacerbates A, and here we are with tons of divemasters working for little to nothing, plus tips, maybe.

    A confounding factor is the fact that in many cases the shops who do the (paid) DM training are the same shops who "hire" DMs for no pay.

    On the whole it seems like classic free market economics at work to me. Charge what the market will bear for goods and services while paying as little as the market allows for materials and labor.

    It will not likely change so long as DMs are willing to work for nearly free to be able to dive for less money. Being a DM is really a "hobby job" in most places I suspect. Unfortunately for those who would like to make a living as a DM this is not likely to change. If you want to earn more then you will likely have to do something else.

    Cheers,
    Jerry
     
  5. oldschoolto

    oldschoolto Regular of the Pub

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: maine
    2,493
    1,805
    But Dale... The fact is that if you want to do something, You " PAY " the price... You picked a profession that would afford you a living afterwards.. Pilots fly for free and wash airplanes and a host of other things to get up the ladder to land the big job they dream of... And few get the left seat of a 787... We do the same thing in skydiving... You want to be a jumpmaster... Then a instructor... Land a job that pays crap money and you live in a old RV at the dropzone... You start at the bottom and pay your dues and for your ratings ... If you're lucky you'll get a few "FREE" jumps along the way...

    Gotta pay the price to live the life in a "DREAM" job.... And very few of them are really dream jobs... The last thing you should do is try and make play time work... Then it just is " WORK "

    Jim...
     
  6. DaleC

    DaleC Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Leftcoast of Canada
    4,981
    2,325
    I agree with that aspect. I was a climbing bum in my 20's and worked in a climbing shop, taking most of my pay in gear. All I wanted was the means to climb (gear) and to be a part of the lifestyle. If that were all it was I'd have no problems really.. but there is a darker side to the whole dive industry approach to education that really bothers me. New divers not given a chance to just dive for a while to determine what they really need or want. They are hard sold, from day one, on the next course, even before finishing the course they are on. And when they have been milked for all they are worth they are punted aside for the next cash cow.

    I'm all for caveat emptor but that supposes the consumer has all the facts and can assess them critically. New divers place so much trust in their initial training organization that it is hard for them to evaluate the veracity of information presented to them, especially when it is all flavoured with a peculiar mix of guilt, fear, and ego stroking that most people just can't recognize until they've been diving for a while.
     
    LeadTurn_SD and oldschoolto like this.
  7. lv2dive

    lv2dive Formerly known as KatePNAtl

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Lake City, FL
    2,795
    2,086
    No, it's exactly how I stated it... But I am talking about from the perspective of the "schools" or whatever one would call them. Simply put, the schools continue to *supply* an offering - programs which cost $$ (and therefore make them a profit) because there continues to be *demand* (divers willing to pay to become divemasters).

    I completely agree with everything you said but don't think it has any relevance to the point I was making.

    Anyone going into SCUBA professionally, thinking they are going to make a lot of money, needs to sit down and read this board for day; anyone then thinking they will make a living as a divemaster should consider working on remedial reading comprehension. Of course there are exceptions but they prove the rule. Should it be that way? I don't know, but it is, so it's kind of a waste of time to get worked up about it IMHO.

     
    oldschoolto likes this.
  8. TMHeimer

    TMHeimer Divemaster

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Dartmouth,NS,Canada(Eastern Passage-Atlantic)
    14,946
    4,184
    One of may favourite quotes:

     
  9. oldschoolto

    oldschoolto Regular of the Pub

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: maine
    2,493
    1,805
    But people eat that **** up.... I'M A DIVE MASTER.... I'M A INSTRUCTOR ..... And willing to pay to get the card....

    Then there are guys like ME.... Started diving at 12... NEVER had a C-card... NEVER took a class... And didn't need a piece of paper or title.... I only got a C-card when it got to the point it was the only way to get a tank filled... :wink: All I have is a AOW card, And that's only so no one will give me crap about going deep...

    Jim...
     
  10. BRT

    BRT not a soft touch

    16,593
    14,409
    Why complain about it. Anybody that doesn't want to be paid little or nothing to be a divemaster or instructor doesn't have to do it. I haven't seen too many trying to sneak away at night. I think there are a lot of people that would like to be able to just survive doing what they like to do. Most can't.
     
    They call me Tater likes this.

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