Paying for the privilege of working

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DeepSeaDan

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Scuba Instructor
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Location
Ontario, Canada
# of dives
I'm a Fish!
Greetings,

So ya wanna be a Divemaster, eh? Well, here's an outfit that will oblige your interest:

Divemaster Internships in Costa Rica | Rocket Frog Divers | Scuba Dive Costa Rica

The only catch is... ya don't get paid - ya gotta pay them! Pay for your room and board, pay for your certs., pay to scrub toilets, schlep tanks, clean pools etc., etc.

Nice little exploitive gig for the Operator, I'd say.

So, to all you wanna-be D.M.'s out there, I suggest you attempt to find a place of employment that will actually PAY YOU to learn the trade. You're not going to be paid much, & you may as well get use to that - no one does this work who wants/needs to make good money.

There just isn't any honor in bustin' yer butt for free!

Tell em' ta scrub their own toilets!

Regards,
DSD
 
Hi Dan,

Thanks for posting your opinion, you are right with some of the information that you posted, but quite off base with some of the other information you posted as well.

First off, I am biased. I did my divemaster internship with Rocket Frog last year over the course of 2 months and loved it. Even though I was paying for this internship. I can honestly say I did not once regret my decision to do it with Rocket Frog, as there are several other operators down there offering internships, some of them for less money, but yes you are still paying.

I met several of the internship students from other dive shops who were not happy at all with their choice. They didn't get to dive very often, they still had to fill tanks (yes I did this as well), but they spent a lot of their time on the boat when their groups were diving or manning the shop.

I dove every day that we had a group going out. Always in the morning and sometimes in the afternoon and night as well. When we went to the Bat Islands where there is a marine park fee, I was never asked to pay more for this and was always included in the group as a diver. The instruction from the instructor was always one on one when we were doing the skills to become a DM and I genuinely enjoyed my time.

Our days did start fairly early. 7am the days we were diving locally, 6 when we were going to the bat islands. I helped the owners and other employees load the boat, fill the tanks, assemble gear, etc. We worked alongside the owners as a team. After the diving was done, I did help unload the boat, take the tanks to the compressor and took my turn at the compressor. Not a big deal for the amount of diving we did. I have no problem saying I paid $1000 for a package that included Rescue Diver, the first aid course, as well as the divemaster certification. I spent two full months there and completed around 120 dives. If you calculate it out it cost me around 8$ per dive and was certified as well. I will take that deal again at another world class diving location if its available!

Anyways, I have messaged you DeepSeaDan, just curious about what your motives were for singling out Rocket Frog in this practise that is fairly common in the industry. I am the webmaster for Rocket Frog currently and would be happy to answer any questions you have about the program or point you in the right direction of the owners of Rocket Frog if you would like to direct your concerns with them.

Thanks
 
Hi Dan,

Thanks for posting your opinion, you are right with some of the information that you posted, but quite off base with some of the other information you posted as well.

First off, I am biased. I did my divemaster internship with Rocket Frog last year over the course of 2 months and loved it. Even though I was paying for this internship. I can honestly say I did not once regret my decision to do it with Rocket Frog, as there are several other operators down there offering internships, some of them for less money, but yes you are still paying.

I met several of the internship students from other dive shops who were not happy at all with their choice. They didn't get to dive very often, they still had to fill tanks (yes I did this as well), but they spent a lot of their time on the boat when their groups were diving or manning the shop.

I dove every day that we had a group going out. Always in the morning and sometimes in the afternoon and night as well. When we went to the Bat Islands where there is a marine park fee, I was never asked to pay more for this and was always included in the group as a diver. The instruction from the instructor was always one on one when we were doing the skills to become a DM and I genuinely enjoyed my time.

Our days did start fairly early. 7am the days we were diving locally, 6 when we were going to the bat islands. I helped the owners and other employees load the boat, fill the tanks, assemble gear, etc. We worked alongside the owners as a team. After the diving was done, I did help unload the boat, take the tanks to the compressor and took my turn at the compressor. Not a big deal for the amount of diving we did. I have no problem saying I paid $1000 for a package that included Rescue Diver, the first aid course, as well as the divemaster certification. I spent two full months there and completed around 120 dives. If you calculate it out it cost me around 8$ per dive and was certified as well. I will take that deal again at another world class diving location if its available!

Anyways, I have messaged you DeepSeaDan, just curious about what your motives were for singling out Rocket Frog in this practise that is fairly common in the industry. I am the webmaster for Rocket Frog currently and would be happy to answer any questions you have about the program or point you in the right direction of the owners of Rocket Frog if you would like to direct your concerns with them.

Thanks

Hello Jonnie,

Thanks for responding.

What you describe as your Internship with Rocket Frog Divers does sound better than the picture I painted; however, I am personally opposed to any form of "paying to work." From what you describe, I would deem it reasonable to accept remuneration in the form of a free dive education ( to the extent of the courses you've listed ) & free room & board. I feel you are certainly working hard enough for the company to warrant at least that much in return. If, as you say, there are considerably worse Internship situations ongoing @ other resort ops., then I can only feel worse for those workers!

Regards,
DSD
 
Internships of this basic nature are common throughout life in general.

My niece recently completed two required internships in order to complete her certification as an occupational therapist. As a result of getting that certification, she is now working in that position.

I was a teacher for many years. In order to get my certification, I had to complete student teaching. It was the primary portion of the second semester of my senior year in college, for which I had to pay many thousands of dollars, even more than 40 years ago. I was not paid for that student teaching.

I then became a school administrator. I had to do an internship for that as well. It was part of the graduate school program for which I had to pay tuition. I could not do my administrative internship while I was being paid to teach--it had to be on my own time. Once again, I was paying to work.

Decades ago some people came up with a novel idea. If infants identified with known genetic problems that would lead to developmental delays were put in educational programs as soon as possible after birth, they may develop and become far more functional than they would otherwise. It was an idea that worked out wonderfully in the long run, but first people had to figure out how to do it. My wife was a young psychologist who was hired to try to figure it out. She researched and experimented and eventually developed one of several protocols for systems of that kind. She trained many people in her system while she did that work herself. Then the state decided that the system was working so well that anyone doing it had to be properly trained and certified. My wife was, of course, not certified. She was therefore required to take a leave of absence from the job she had created so that she could intern in another program and work without pay for a semester in order to complete the certification requirements.

So, how is this scuba internship any different from the examples I cited above?
 
I think the problem if they gave all of that for free is that there would be 40 people applying every day for internships. If they get to dive free, live free, and get trained who wouldn't do this. I would make my life a constant internship. As it is there is atleast 1 or 2 applications a week from people interested in this internship opportunity. Rocket Frog is offering a service to train you to be an employable professional in the diving industry. As John said above it is no different than lawyers doing their articling or doctors doing residency. In the diving industry as in many areas of life you have to pay your dues before you can make your career.
 
Feelings aside, this is the reality of the labor market today, especially for young people looking to amass skills. Think of it as tuition to learn some specialized skills, and the toilet cleaning as building character.
 
Internships of this basic nature are common throughout life in general.

My niece recently completed two required internships in order to complete her certification as an occupational therapist. As a result of getting that certification, she is now working in that position.

I was a teacher for many years. In order to get my certification, I had to complete student teaching. It was the primary portion of the second semester of my senior year in college, for which I had to pay many thousands of dollars, even more than 40 years ago. I was not paid for that student teaching.

I then became a school administrator. I had to do an internship for that as well. It was part of the graduate school program for which I had to pay tuition. I could not do my administrative internship while I was being paid to teach--it had to be on my own time. Once again, I was paying to work.

Decades ago some people came up with a novel idea. If infants identified with known genetic problems that would lead to developmental delays were put in educational programs as soon as possible after birth, they may develop and become far more functional than they would otherwise. It was an idea that worked out wonderfully in the long run, but first people had to figure out how to do it. My wife was a young psychologist who was hired to try to figure it out. She researched and experimented and eventually developed one of several protocols for systems of that kind. She trained many people in her system while she did that work herself. Then the state decided that the system was working so well that anyone doing it had to be properly trained and certified. My wife was, of course, not certified. She was therefore required to take a leave of absence from the job she had created so that she could intern in another program and work without pay for a semester in order to complete the certification requirements.

So, how is this scuba internship any different from the examples I cited above?

Hi John,

Some Internships are paid ( eg.: my Daughter - 6 mo. paid Internship in Water Quality Control ), most are not, & I think they should be. Just because something has existed for a long time doesn't make it right / appropriate.

Again, the remuneration doesn't have to be in dollars per se, but I believe there should be an equivalent value received ( something tangible, like Jonn's Certs. ) commensurate with the value given.

Regards,
DSD

---------- Post added July 4th, 2014 at 03:23 PM ----------

I think the problem if they gave all of that for free is that there would be 40 people applying every day for internships. If they get to dive free, live free, and get trained who wouldn't do this. I would make my life a constant internship. As it is there is atleast 1 or 2 applications a week from people interested in this internship opportunity. Rocket Frog is offering a service to train you to be an employable professional in the diving industry. As John said above it is no different than lawyers doing their articling or doctors doing residency. In the diving industry as in many areas of life you have to pay your dues before you can make your career.

Dive "free??" Were you doing what you wanted to do on those dives, or were you following direction? If you could afford to live as an Intern for the rest of your days - more power to you, Lad! Why didn't you just find the least expensive means of getting your D.M., then go get paid being one?? From what I've seen thus far, the real learning is on the job, no matter what your gig. When young Lads ask me where they should train for their Commercial Diving certificate, I advise them to find the quickest, CHEAPEST school they can, because the real learning happens the day you step onto the job site.

Best,
DSD
 
Internships of this basic nature are common throughout life in general.

My niece recently completed two required internships in order to complete her certification as an occupational therapist. As a result of getting that certification, she is now working in that position.

I was a teacher for many years. In order to get my certification, I had to complete student teaching. It was the primary portion of the second semester of my senior year in college, for which I had to pay many thousands of dollars, even more than 40 years ago. I was not paid for that student teaching.

I then became a school administrator. I had to do an internship for that as well. It was part of the graduate school program for which I had to pay tuition. I could not do my administrative internship while I was being paid to teach--it had to be on my own time. Once again, I was paying to work.

Decades ago some people came up with a novel idea. If infants identified with known genetic problems that would lead to developmental delays were put in educational programs as soon as possible after birth, they may develop and become far more functional than they would otherwise. It was an idea that worked out wonderfully in the long run, but first people had to figure out how to do it. My wife was a young psychologist who was hired to try to figure it out. She researched and experimented and eventually developed one of several protocols for systems of that kind. She trained many people in her system while she did that work herself. Then the state decided that the system was working so well that anyone doing it had to be properly trained and certified. My wife was, of course, not certified. She was therefore required to take a leave of absence from the job she had created so that she could intern in another program and work without pay for a semester in order to complete the certification requirements.

So, how is this scuba internship any different from the examples I cited above?
Well, there is one difference between the DM internship described and the student teaching example. The fee you paid to do student teaching likely went to the university, not to the school or teacher providing the experience.

In a free (or partly free) market, you’ll find a range of commodities/services and fee structures. If paying to do a DM internship didn’t have customers, it would cease to exist. It’s neither right nor wrong, just the market.
 
Well, there is one difference between the DM internship described and the student teaching example. The fee you paid to do student teaching likely went to the university, not to the school or teacher providing the experience.

Some does go to the school/teacher.
 
It really depends on where you're at - I ended up doing some 20 free DM dives on our local dive boat last summer. I purchased a season pass for the boat and the owner felt like, in exchange for me using it frequently, me DM'ing for free was a fair trade. I felt like I paid for the season pass, which had no restrictions on how often I could use it, but was forced into playing DM without compensation or gratitude. It didn't end well.

That said - after that experience, I do know I have no interest in being a DM. So that education was well worth it.
 
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