Paying for the privilege of working

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Take a look on the PADI employment forum, there are plenty offering "jobs" then have at the bottom "please not this is an unpaid position". The diving industry generally uses a different definition of a job than the rest of the planet!

Ultimately people get sold on the myth of a lifestyle.
 
Interesting discussion!

Medical interns in hospitals get paid and medical residents in hospitals get paid more than interns. They get paid because they are generating money for the hospital by treating patients. However, they have also paid for four years of college, and four years of medical school, generally speaking. They have earned their MD degree which is their minimum level of training at which they can start getting paid as a doctor. Similarly, a Dive Master has obtained the minimum level of training to get paid for their knowledge, skill, and ability as a diver. So it seems reasonable to me that until you obtain Dive Master level, you are paying for the training you need to be a professional diver.

And it sounds like the dive op in Costa Rica has come up with a pretty attractive program.
 
the die industry in general is a low margin profession due to the costs of boats insurance, etc...
here there is no assurance of a trip. weather can blow you out for weeks at a time... you still have to pay your bills...... so there is little left for the employees.

also so many lower income people want to dive, they will work for almost free to dive for"free"

---------- Post added August 10th, 2014 at 10:45 AM ----------

$1K for that long of a trip with food, lodging, dives, AND certs... that is UBER cheap...

no way you could get a DM here for that price for just the certs....
 
Yes, interesting discussion, and one of my favourites. I like a lot of what DeepSeaDan says, particularly about the real learning begins once you're on the job. That's not exact, of course, but I get the point--having experienced this both as a teacher and now a DM. Of course there is a lot of necessary "studying" and practicing if you will, before you can get to the job to start to really learn. Another point made was about "schlepping tanks 101" not being a really big "learning" part of the course--much like hauling music stands not contributing much to teaching Band. Then there is the discussion of paying tuition, or paying for training -- as opposed to (companies) at times paying people WHILE they train (guess they assume the potential employee will bring more value to the company). I have read that some of these Internships are a couple of weeks while others are way longer. It seems hard to compare which is right-- or more "fair'-- unless you calculate all the hours vs. wages or fees. It's also hard to start comparing professions. What do they pay minor leaguers who hopefully get to the Majors and make how much? So, you sign up for a DM course and you get what you sign up for-- read the fine print. Once you GET the job the pay is at best minimum wage (unless you do a lot of other stuff besides actually DMing), and we all know many DMs do the job for perks only (another topic). I paid a certain amount for the course. I did the academic and practical learning part and we audited a couple of classes, helping out sparingly. Plus the rest of the "components" as they say, and I think we hauled a few tanks. There are all kinds of ways to look at it, but it has to work for you.
 
Substitute surfing for diving and this conversation really begins to look kooky.

I started diving because I wanted to dive. So I dive. I'm still diving and haven't run into that situation that being a DM would have helped me over come. Becoming a DM to become a better diver is like selling vacuum cleaners because you want a cleaner house.

And if you actually did want to be a working DM you ought to be mad at the industry that trained you for the job and then turned that job into a volunteer position.
 
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DaleC, I agree pretty much with your first point. As for being mad at the industry for training you for a volunteer position, a logical person may check out the paying job opportunities before "enlisting". I knew I had a good chance to at least get a little work assisting at the shop if I successfully passed the course. Otherwise I would not have signed up. I guess logic says that in such places (other than here) that have more than one shop, it would make sense to ask around. I think one would find that shops tend to hire those they have trained since they know them. I have asked at shops down in the U.S. where they know me well as a customer, but they say they already have more than enough of their own DMs on staff already. Some of this research may be easier today with the internet. But if one goes into it blind and finds no pay for work, well.....
 
I agree one should do their research. But I think it's kinda sad that, one agency at least, pushes almost everyone into the "professional" pathway without regard for how that will impact those who have gone before or the position as a whole.

Flooding the market with new members to the point where DMing becomes a de facto volunteer position harms those who want to earn a living by actually becoming "professionals" and lowers the expectations of what one can expect from a DM. If one is doing the job just for the free dives and air fills, what can customers really expect in the form of commitment. Are they there for me, the job, or themselves?

I work with volunteers IRL as an integral part of my job. Bless them for offering, but the one constant negative is that I can really not expect anything concrete from them. They receive no payment that can be forfeited or position that can be revoked. They come and go like the wind and other than suggesting they not work for free there is little to command discipline or commitment (other than what arises from their own character).

If you are a paying customer that is counting on a dive operator in an unknown environment, is that what you want or expect.
 
Agree completely about flooding the market with "professional" volunteers. As Band teachers, we start a gazillion kids on certain instruments, then as prof. players, we complain that there are very few paying gigs--but you can play anywhere you want without pay. Not sure I agree with the commitment thing you mention. My personal take on that is since I'm being paid (though be it about minimum wage), I feel that I am more valued--I feel I should do my best to earn the pay. I'm not saying that someone who does it just for perks doesn't also do their best for their students--Some may say that these folks are even MORE dedicated because they care so much for their students that they basically DM for nothing (no one can convince me that all that work to do the DM course and then the grunt work when working is a good deal for free air and discounts--unless it's free air for doing 200 pleasure dives a year maybe...). I just think these are a curious folk who do devalue the job as much as the agency that sets it up that way. I know I am in the (vast?) minority on this.
 
I recently returned from Cozumel where the op I used had GoPro Divemaster training there. The students did pay a fee (which included living accommodations) based on their level of training. The length of the course was also based on their current certification. No certification or OW only students had 8 weeks of training. My concern is the majority that I spoke to had no dive experience at all prior to arriving. The 60 day "Zero to Hero" program doesn't seem prudent. I wouldn't want a divemaster leading a dive with only the minimum 60 dives required by PADI.
 

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