Pat Tillman, the Army and The Silver Star

If review shows that Pat Tillman did not merit Silver Star, should it be rescinded?

  • Yes, I think the award should be rescinded

    Votes: 5 23.8%
  • No, I think the awared should stand as is

    Votes: 16 76.2%

  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .

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Rick Murchison:
The "coverup" is a total fabrication by the @#$%^&* press. The original combat report suspected the possibility of friendly fire in the "fog of war."
There was never any "coverup," but rather the normal flow of investigation, with the results published at the end of that investigation.
The fact that his death was from friendly fire in no way detracts from his actions and is totally irrelevant to the award.
@#$%^&* press.
Rick
9x's out of 10, I'd be right their with you. But this seems to be a coverup by the Army, rather than the press. This according to the family of Pat. Here is an article from the familiies perspective

Tillman's family rips accounts by Army
Folks fear truth will never come

Josh White
Washington Post
May. 23, 2005 12:00 AM

Pat Tillman's family is lashing out at the Army, saying that the military investigations into Tillman's friendly-fire death in Afghanistan last year were a sham and that Army efforts to cover up the truth have made it harder for them to deal with their loss.

More than a year after their son was shot several times by fellow Army Rangers on a hillside near the Pakistani border, Tillman's mother and father said in interviews that they think the military and the government created a heroic tale about how their son died to foster a patriotic response across the country. They say the Army's "lies" about what happened have made them suspicious, and they are certain they will never get the full story.

"Pat had high ideals about the country; that's why he did what he did," Mary Tillman said in her first lengthy interview since her son's death. "The military let him down. The administration let him down. It was a sign of disrespect. The fact that he was the ultimate team player and he watched his own men kill him is absolutely heartbreaking and tragic. The fact that they lied about it afterward is disgusting."
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Tillman, a popular player for the Arizona Cardinals, gave up stardom in the National Football League after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks to join the Army Rangers with his brother. After a tour in Iraq, their unit was sent to Afghanistan in spring 2004, where they were to hunt for the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. Shortly after arriving, Tillman was killed in a barrage of gunfire from his own men, mistaken for the enemy as he got into position to defend them.

The Army kept the soldiers on the ground quiet and told Tillman's family and the public that he was killed by enemy fire while storming a hill, barking orders. After a public memorial service, at which Tillman received the Silver Star, the Army told Tillman's family what had really happened, that he had been killed by his own men.

In separate interviews in their hometown of San Jose and by telephone, Tillman's parents, who are divorced, spoke about their ordeal with the Army with simmering frustration and anger. Several military investigations have offered differing accounts of Tillman's death.

The latest investigation, written about by the Washington Post earlier this month, showed that the soldiers in Afghanistan knew almost immediately that they had killed Tillman by mistake in what they believed was a firefight with enemies. The investigation also revealed soldiers later burned Tillman's uniform and body armor.

That information was slow to make it back to the United States, the report said, and Army officials here were unaware that his death on April 22, 2004, was fratricide when they notified the family that Tillman had been shot.

Over the next 10 days, however, Army officials, including the theater commander, Army Gen. John Abizaid, were told of the reports that Tillman had been killed by his own men, the investigation said. The Army waited until an investigation was finished before telling the family, which was weeks after a nationally televised memorial service that honored Tillman on May 3, 2004.

Patrick Tillman Sr., a San Jose lawyer, said he is furious about what he found in the volumes of witness statements and investigative documents the Army has given to the family. He decried what he calls a "botched homicide investigation" and blames high-ranking Army officers for presenting "outright lies" to the family and to the public.

"After it happened, all the people in positions of authority went out of their way to script this," Patrick said. "They purposely interfered with the investigation, they covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy."

Army spokesmen maintain the Army has done everything it can to keep the family informed.

Mary Tillman keeps her son's wedding album in the living room of the house where he grew up, and his Arizona State University football jersey, still dirty from the 1997 Rose Bowl game, hangs in a nearby closet. With each new version of events, her mind swirls with new theories about what really happened and why.

"It makes you feel like you're losing your mind in a way," she said. "You imagine things. When you don't know the truth, certain details can be blown out of proportion. The truth may be painful, but it's the truth. You start to contrive all these scenarios that could have taken place because they just kept lying. If you feel you're being lied to, you can never put it to rest."

Patrick said he believes he will never get the truth, and he said he is resigned to that. But he wants everyone in the chain of command, from Tillman's direct supervisors to the one-star general who conducted the latest investigation, to face discipline for "dishonorable acts."

"Maybe lying's not a big deal anymore," he said. "Pat's dead, and this isn't going to bring him back. But these guys should have been held up to scrutiny, right up the chain of command, and no one has."

Mary says the government used her son for weeks after his death, perpetuating an untrue story to capitalize on his altruism, just as the Abu Ghraib prison scandal was erupting publicly. She said she was particularly offended when President Bush offered a taped memorial message to Tillman at a Cardinals football game shortly before the presidential election last fall.

Living in AZ, as you can imagine this is a huge story. I feel bad for the family, I don't know if the issue here should be should the Silver Star be recinded, but rather should it had been awarded based upon lies and deceit by the US Army itself. Now that the "lies" have come to light, it is right for them to recind the medal, now that it does not serve their purpose anymore? The funny thing is, from all I know about Pat, he wouldn't have wanted the Medal in the first place, regardless of the circumstances.

I had the pleasure of having season tickets to ASU for 2 yrs. while Pat played, he was a good football player, fun to watch. By all accounts from family, friends, teammates, coaches, etc. Pat was an extrodinary person. I know in his memory alot of good has come to our community, and probably in the San Jose, CA area as well.

We should concentrate on the man, and not the circumstances surrounding his death. Military Hero, maybe..maybe not, we may never know. American Hero, extraordinarily selfless man...I definitely think so.

My .02 cents.
 
Using the Washington Post as a credible source is no better than newsweek or dan rather.
Rick
 
Rick Murchison:
Using the Washington Post as a credible source is no better than newsweek or dan rather.
Rick
That was just one instance, so your saying the family is lying or completely misquoted in the article. :06: Using the US Army as a credible source is no better than Pres. Bush or Donald Rumsfield :wink: touchee :D
 
shark.byte.usa:
That was just one instance, so your saying the family is lying or completely misquoted in the article. :06: Using the US Army as a credible source is no better than Pres. Bush or Donald Rumsfield :wink: touchee :D
LOL.

I say let the medal stand, no need for the Army to spit more on Tillman's family than they have done thus far. If the issue is credibility of the Army regarding whether or not all medals have been awarded were deserved, that's a separate issue.
 
I agree with investigations and setting the record straight but I do not think a medal, once awarded, should be rescinded except for wrongdoing or deceipt on behalf of the individual who was awarded the medal. They should record whatever the investigation finds, make note that the deceased served their country faithfully and in the absence of wrongdoing, there was no need to review the status of the medal. The government should bear the burden of a mistaken award without shouldering their mistakes upon those who faithfully served.
 
shark.byte.usa:
That was just one instance, so your saying the family is lying or completely misquoted in the article.
The family isn't "lying" - they have been misled. Drawn in.
You must carefully sift through what they "think" and/or "believe" and what is verifyable fact. The fact that the freindly fire nature of Tillman's death wasn't made public until an investigation was complete is as you would want it if you were in combat. It is a terrible thing and affects all involved in terrible ways. You don't banter such charges about lightly. You don't make them without thoroughly checking them out. This isn't "coverup" - this is prudence and the duty of care you would demand were you potentially involved in such a situation. You cannot possibly understand the "fog of war" unless you have been in actual combat.
As for misquoting, I don't know how much experience you have with the press, but I have a bit more than a little, and was *always* - as in every time - misquoted, even when I wrote it down for 'em.
From the Army, what we have here is a lot of good faith effort by a lot of well meaning folks to take care of Tillman's family the best way they knew how with the information they had at the time twisted into something sinister by a military hating press. The use of the family by the press in their agenda is shameful.
As is your snide remark about the President.
Rick
 
MoonWrasse:
LOL.

I say let the medal stand, no need for the Army to spit more on Tillman's family than they have done thus far. If the issue is credibility of the Army regarding whether or not all medals have been awarded were deserved, that's a separate issue.


So what we are saying is that the army is trying to fix the issue of lying to the family but they shouldn't recind the honor even if the honor was given based on lies???

That sounds like an insult to those who have given there life for this country.

I am with you Rick.

John
 
jhbryaniv:
but they shouldn't recind the honor even if the honor was given based on lies???

why were they in such a hurry to give the medal in the first place? why not
wait for the investigation to be over?

PR

plain and simple, they used this man for PR because of his fame

and now, to take it back? that just adds insult to injury. personally, he died
for his country, he deserves the Silver Star, no questions asked. i wouldn't
want to be the one to second-guess his death.
 
H2Andy:
why were they in such a hurry to give the medal in the first place? why not
wait for the investigation to be over?

PR

plain and simple, they used this man for PR because of his fame

and now, to take it back? that just adds insult to injury. personally, he died
for his country, he deserves the Silver Star, no questions asked. i wouldn't
want to be the one to second-guess his death.


Your not saying you haven't seen the Gov't do something in a rush than tell you that YOU did it wrong and YOU had to fix it?

I am not trying to bash the guy or say he or his family did anything wrong but what I am saying is that by giving the guy a medal he may not have deserved detracts from the men and women who have served there country.
 
jhbryaniv:
Your not saying you haven't seen the Gov't do something in a rush than tell you that YOU did it wrong and YOU had to fix it?

I am not trying to bash the guy or say he or his family did anything wrong but what I am saying is that by giving the guy a medal he may not have deserved detracts from the men and women who have served there country.
So you're saying this would be the first time this has happened? Doubtful IMO.
Also consider the many who have fallen without the special personal recognition of a medal. Don't they deserve your respect as well?
 

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