Passenger Bill of Rights for air travel

[OHGoDive]

Out of a 18 airlines JetBlue ranked 14th for flight delays and arrivals,[that's dismal] which might answer why they were so hell bent to pull away from the terminial in that storm to improve their departure time record? They ranked 6th in overall customer complaints. This last fiasco of theirs has invited more investigation of thier standing in the industry.

Apples = Apples.
Oranges = Oranges.

Take a look at your list of airlines. What airports do they PRIMARILY fly out of? In the case of JetBlue, a smaller regional airline, they fly nearly all of their flights out of JFK, BOS, and IAD. Arguably, 3 of the most congested airports in the US. You don't think that maybe that contributes to their delays?

As it turns out, at those 3 airports, JetBlue was above airport average in every year they've operated. Not only that, the list you are talking about is 20 airlines at ALL reporting airports. But, if you look at the report for the 31 common demoninator airports, JetBlue jumps to 9th out of 20 (because it evens the field against those carriers operating in horribly congested areas, like, um, Aloha, Hawaiian and Alaska Airlines).

Look at just those 3 airports, and little JetBlue jumps to 4th.

Not quite so dismal, when you take things in context, are they?

Of course, it's easier to just watch CNN, eh?

I agree with you. You push back from the terminal on time and the record shows on time departure, even if you have sat on runway apron for 2 hours? asinine!

Once an airplane pushes back, it's entirely up to airport control when, and if, they take off. You're not suggesting that airplanes should just push back, taxi away and take off whenever they're ready, just so you don't have to wait on the ground, are you?

Or that the airline be punished because ground control is too backed up to get a loaded plane off the ground according to schedule?

Do you blame yourself when you arrive at the doctors office on time, and have to wait 45 minutes before you see them? Asinine.



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-- quick edit -- JBLU is up again so far today. Golly.

 

[DandyDon]

I agree with you. You push back from the terminal on time and the record shows on time departure, even if you have sat on runway apron for 2 hours? asinine!

Ok, in many cases it's not really - as the airline has done their job in pushing on time, ready to go on time, even if they are held by traffic or weather. And I'll agree than Jet Blue did fine by that in this case. I could argue that they shouldn't have done it since they should have know they couldn't get out, but I don't have facts to support that, and my mind is not closed. I am here for discussion, not to beat drums.

My problem is with them not giving in sooner and requesting help in evacuating the planes when it did become obvious that they weren't getting out in a reasonable time. If you can't get that tube full of ppl off the ground or even service the toilets in an hour or two, give in then and expedite a new plan. And don't keep a skeleton ground crew so as to minimize budgets - have enough workers on hand and on call to deal with greater challenges.

Restating offered only to clarify, not to bore - thank you.

 

[pilot fish]

I agree with you, Don. That is really the issue, pulling out of the terminal when things are already backed up and it looks VERY doubtful you will ever get off for several hours. But that is not even the main issue here. The main issue is trapping people on a plane ON THE RUNWAY for 11 hours AGAINST THIER WILL. Pull the plug on that flight after 3 hours and get the passengers off before the toilets drowned them.

Whoaaaaaaaa, stock is down now. golly. It is meaningless, as some of you more experienced people know, because the day is not over yet and tehv olume is not heavy, at the moment.

Ok, in many cases it's not really - as the airline has done their job in pushing on time, ready to go on time, even if they are held by traffic or weather. And I'll agree than Jet Blue did fine by that in this case. I could argue that they shouldn't have done it since they should have know they couldn't get out, but I don't have facts to support that, and my mind is not closed. I am here for discussion, not to beat drums.

My problem is with them not giving in sooner and requesting help in evacuating the planes when it did become obvious that they weren't getting out in a reasonable time. If you can't get that tube full of ppl off the ground or even service the toilets in an hour or two, give in then and expedite a new plan. And don't keep a skeleton ground crew so as to minimize budgets - have enough workers on hand and on call to deal with greater challenges.

Restating offered only to clarify, not to bore - thank you.

 

[OHGoDive]

I agree with you, Don. That is really the issue, pulling out of the terminal when things are already backed up and it looks VERY doubtful you will ever get off for several hours. But that is not even the main issue here. The main issue is trapping people on a plane ON THE RUNWAY for 11 hours AGAINST THIER WILL. Pull the plug on that flight after 3 hours and get the passengers off before the toilets drowned them.

Whoaaaaaaaa, stock is down now. golly. It is meaningless, as some of you more experienced people know, because the day is not over yet and tehv olume is not heavy, at the moment.

Well, it's been fun all, but I'm curious how Catherine's house swapping post is going to turn out, so I'm going to quit playing here in the psych ward and post my last thoughts to this thread. Specifically to pilot fish because he's been so much fun to observe.

Have there really ever been instances of people drowning on airplanes from toilets?

Do you ever actually answer questions put to you?

Since their stock performance was meaningful when you were convinced that you knew what it was going to do, is it safe to assume that it's meaningless now because it shows that you didn't know what you're talking about?

And finally, "more experienced" in what way, and exactly what point were you trying to make with that phrase?

 

[pilot fish]

"It is meaningless, as some of you more experienced people know, because the day is not over yet and the volume is not heavy, at the moment. ]]]]]me

 

[Cacia]

And don't keep a skeleton ground crew so as to minimize budgets - have enough workers on hand and on call to deal with greater challenges.

And that translates into a LOT of money, because PF is going to regulate that they all get OT, and full health coverage to be on standby "in case of"....

How about we all just "live dangerously" and chance having to get creative if we are really that traumatized by the waiting on the plane?

 

[Kim]

How about we all just "live dangerously" and chance having to get creative if we are really that traumatized by the waiting on the plane?

If i ever get stuck on a plane I hope I'm sitting next to you, Catherine!

 

[Cacia]

lol..very smart Kim.

this I could handle.

In fact, I might convince them they wanted to let PF off the plane too. I would convince them that everyone involved would be better off if we three were allowed to leave with our travel voucher...and make them think it was their idea. Now, that is fun.

 

[vladimir]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/23/opinion/23fri1.html

 

[DandyDon]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/23/opinion/23fri1.html

Thanks! Links like that often go unusable after a few days, so I'm going to paste it here...

Editorial: Trapped on an Airplane
Published: February 23, 2007

JetBlue’s horrendous performance during the recent ice storms that paralyzed New York City’s airports has reinvigorated calls for a “passengers’ bill of rights” to protect air travelers against what can only be deemed abusive treatment. JetBlue has moved rapidly to make amends, but its shocking failures and those of other airlines in recent months make a federal law the best solution.

At the storm’s worst, JetBlue had nine planes sitting on the tarmac at Kennedy Airport for six to 10 hours while passengers were trapped in sweltering cabins with only snacks for food and stinking toilets. The company’s first big mistake was betting that the weather would quickly improve. It failed to cancel outgoing fights that were unable to take off while it allowed incoming flights to keep landing — creating gridlock at its gates. Meanwhile, some planes’ wheels froze to the ground along with the equipment that moves and de-ices them.

The same lean organization that has allowed JetBlue to keep fares low collapsed under the strain. The airline ended up with large numbers of pilots and flight attendants far from where they were needed. Crew members who tried to call in failed to get through an overwhelmed communications system. The understaffed reservations system could not handle the flood of calls from passengers trying to figure out whether to go to the airport.

JetBlue seems desperately eager to make amends before it loses a huge chunk of its customers. It has said it will add staff members and improve training. It has also issued a “Customer Bill of Rights,” which would compensate passengers kept waiting by the airline’s own mistakes (including those affected by the recent ice storm) and allow passengers to get off planes if grounded for more than five hours.

That’s a start but not enough. The code is voluntary and applies only to JetBlue, whereas other airlines have also treated passengers abusively. Last December, American Airlines kept passengers trapped aboard a diverted plane for more than eight hours — an incident of such notoriety that American now pledges to let passengers off after four hours.

Senators Barbara Boxer, a California Democrat, and Olympia Snowe, Republican of Maine, have introduced a bill that would require that passengers be provided with adequate food and water and sanitary bathrooms while delayed on the ground and be allowed to leave the plane after three hours. Representative Mike Thompson, also a California Democrat, will introduce a bill that would also require airlines to update passengers frequently on the cause and timing of delays. Both proposals would be strengthened if they required the Transportation Department to impose suitable fines or passenger compensation should an airline fail to comply.

Although the airline industry continues to oppose government intervention, Congress needs to ensure that passengers have the right to escape involuntary confinement, to be adequately fed and cared for, and to receive timely and accurate information about their prospects for taking off. These needs seem so basic it is hard to see why they should not be mandatory.

I just do not see how a reasonable person would object to the paragraph I emphasized - with requirements, not suggestions for adequate food and water and sanitary bathrooms, allowed to leave the plane after three hours, and require airlines to update passengers frequently on the cause and timing of delays.

I often hav problems with that last part - not knowing cause & timing of deays with the regional airline that serves Continental. If I have an hour to kill, ok - tell me so I can kill it somewhere besides the crowded gate area. The terminal signs in IAH Houston are not dependable, but if I phone the airline - they blame that on the city. If I try to get a straight answer from the gate agent to compare to the telephone agent's info, it often don't click. Some of this is unavoidable as they try to squeeze in a plane that has arrived late and lost its gate assignment, but a better job could be done with a little more effort and resources.