Passenger Bill of Rights for air travel

[OHGoDive]

I just do not see how a reasonable person would object to the paragraph I emphasized - with requirements, not suggestions for adequate food and water and sanitary bathrooms, allowed to leave the plane after three hours, and require airlines to update passengers frequently on the cause and timing of delays.

Don,

I think I'm reasonable, and I don't object to the idea that passengers should be treated properly, whether they are delayed or not.

But, my concerns are with how we solve the problem. My feeling is that our well-meaning Government will not solve the problem. The politicians are latching onto this because it's a no-brainer for vote getting. Your quote says it all, how would a reasonable person object? That translates into easy votes for the politicians supporting a law for it. And they know it.

However, a law doesn't translate into fixing a problem. In fact, it has the possibility to make things worse. And more expensive. Everyone supported the post 9/11 reforms to airline security. It was reasonable. A whole industry was created. Homeland Security. TSA. Do you feel that airlines are more secure now than pre-9/11 because of the Government? Do you feel that you are safer because you can only bring 3 oz. bottles of liquid onboard, while everything else is confiscated? Are we safer because they're patting down grandma in the corner? Do you think our taxes and passengers time are being spent efficiently on better technology and techniques to improve security?

Or, like most people, do you feel that we are wasting money, time, and effort, inconveniencing millions of people doing some government mandated security shadow dance to satisfy "reasonable" laws passed by Congress to improve security? And accomplishing very little because of it.

Now, why do people think that a law passed by Congress to make life better for delayed passengers would not lead to the exact same frustration, costs, and bureaucratic nightmare?

When was the last time government actually solved a problem, instead of just creating a whole new layer of new problems and costs affecting ALL TRAVELERS, to save the few, and I mean VERY FEW who are, ever have been or ever would be inconvenienced in this way?

I'm not objecting to the concept that this should not have happened, and should never happen again. I'm just against the solutions that everyone is clamoring for. I don't think a law, or government mandated penalties, or more bureaucracy to monitor, enforce, arbitrate, and implement such a law will do anything but make air travel worse for 99.9% of all travelers. I'd rather let the marketplace sort it out, the way that I believe JetBlue has done. I hope that's clear.

(Ok, I lied about not posting again, but this thread is like crack to me)

 

[tedtim]

<snipped>
I just do not see how a reasonable person would object to the paragraph I emphasized - with requirements, not suggestions for adequate food and water and sanitary bathrooms, allowed to leave the plane after three hours, and require airlines to update passengers frequently on the cause and timing of delays. <snipped>

Given the reduction/elimination of meals on many of the shorter routes, it will be interesting to see the definition of "adequate" or its interpretation. Then again, unless you travel first or business class, how many of us would consider airline food to be adequate? Sanitary bathrooms on airplanes - what a concept! Heck I have seen reports recently that indicate not to drink the water they try to serve you unless it is bottled water. Here is one from the NY Times that is just over two years old.

"ADVISORY: TRAVEL NOTES; Some Airline Water Fails Tests

By SUSAN STELLIN
Published: January 30, 2005

The Environmental Protection Agency released a report on Jan. 19 on its second round of tests of water on aircraft, confirming previous tests showing that cabin drinking water does not always meet the agency's safety standards.
Although the agency did not find E. coli bacteria on any of the 169 domestic and international aircraft tested in November and December (E. coli was found on 2 of the 158 planes tested in August and September), the environmental agency did find that 17 percent of the planes tested carried water that did not meet standards for total coliform bacteria, up from 13 percent in its previous tests. That bacteria isn't harmful by itself but can indicate that other disease-causing organisms are present.
The E.P.A. reiterated its earlier guidance to travelers, suggesting that passengers with compromised immune systems or concerns about water quality should request canned or bottled beverages. Some of the water served on airplanes is bottled; coffee or tea may be made from water from the galley."

New regulations = more costs. Perhaps it is time for the pendulum to start swinging away from the low cost fares.

 

[pilot fish]

'JetBlue’s horrendous performance during the recent ice storms that paralyzed New York City’s airports has reinvigorated calls for a “passengers’ bill of rights” to protect air travelers against what can only be deemed abusive treatment"

Why some people will tolerate this deplorable treatment and chalk it off as just part of the many travel annoyances is puzzling. If you accept that level of bad treatment then you should not be suprised if it continues, or gets worse.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE, NONE WHAT SO EVER; FOR CONFINING PEOPLE AGAINST THEIR WILL ON A PLANE THAT IS STUCK ON THE RUNWAY.
















































"

 

[Christi]

PF...maybe you should let this one go too.

 

[pilot fish]

PF...maybe you should let this one go too.

:laughing:

What would *you* do if forced to remain on a plane on the runway for 11 hours in the conditions described? What do YOU feel we passengers should do to prevent this from happening again?

 

[Cacia]

I am going to go out on a limb, PF, and say Christie is probably capable of getting off.
Do you really NOT think you could hatch a plan for an exit, if you were determined?

You have been living in NYC too long...you might be "over civilized", which, no offense, is a common affliction.

I suppose you would have been herded into the Superdome? You need to read some of George Will's editorials about empowering yourself. Power is not given, you have to take it. Only those who believe that their captors are entitled to hold them, can be. Why do you think this could happen in the first place? because not enough people stood up and said "No way, four hours is enough...bye"

 

[onfloat]

Senators Barbara Boxer, a California Democrat, and Olympia Snowe, Republican of Maine, have introduced a bill that would require that passengers be provided with adequate food and water and sanitary bathrooms while delayed on the ground and be allowed to leave the plane after three hours. Representative Mike Thompson, also a California Democrat, will introduce a bill that would also require airlines to update passengers frequently on the cause and timing of delays. Both proposals would be strengthened if they required the Transportation Department to impose suitable fines or passenger compensation should an airline fail to comply.

What a waste of tax payer dollars!! This is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to something that wasn't even on the radar a year ago. The market will sort this out on their own. The government does not need to pass a bunch of laws that are going to be difficult to enforce and are more about "feel good." Heck I'll bet that "Wrongful detainment" Laws already apply. And I would be willing to bet that the law suits that spring from this incedent is going to be detrimental to the company. Already people will not use JetBlue because of this and JetBlue maybe become the front runner in changing this type of behavior, if they don't another Airline will!!

 

[pilot fish]

That is sooooooooooo funny. "over civilized"? Thank you but that is not the case. I've been accused of a lot of things but over civilized is not one of them. Yes, I would join you in the effort to extricate ourselves from the tube. I can see you now, Pilot Fish, you need to say this, and do that, leave the rest to me. Uh, hon, I need to get this guy off the plane right now. I think he's having the Big Kuhuna. Nurse Catherine, save me. get me off this plane We'll leave one way or the other.

I am going to go out on a limb, PF, and say Christie is probably capable of getting off.
Do you really NOT think you could hatch a plan for an exit, if you were determined?

You have been living in NYC too long...you might be "over civilized", which, no offense, is a common affliction.

I suppose you would have been herded into the Superdome? You need to read some of George Will's editorials about empowering yourself. Power is not given, you have to take it. Only those who believe that their captors are entitled to hold them, can be. Why do you think this could happen in the first place? because not enough people stood up and said "No way, four hours is enough...bye"

 

[Kim]

:laughing:

What would *you* do if forced to remain on a plane on the runway for 11 hours in the conditions described?

So what did you do?

What do YOU feel we passengers should do to prevent this from happening again?

Uhhhh.......take the train....or a bus...or a boat?

Buy a more expensive ticket to start with?

 

[pilot fish]

So what did you do?

Uhhhh.......take the train....or a bus...or a boat?

Buy a more expensive ticket to start with?

It hasnt happened to me for that long. I was detained on the runawy for 2 1/2 hours. We were told that in another 30 minutes we'll be gone. I was getting steadily annoyed. I doubt I could have last another few hours.

Yeah, you coudl take a train or boat but it would take you forever.

What would a more expensive ticket do for me ? I'd still be trapped. First class had to wait too