Passenger Bill of Rights for air travel

[tedtim]

Nice try. Sorry, that doesn't do it:shakehead You would not tolerate it in a cab, metered or flat fee, so why do we have to put up with it on planes?:no

Just in case you have not read this, here is the Conditions of Carriage that forms part of a passenger's agreement with JetBlue. Other airlines have similar documents. See especially sections 25 and 26. When you buy a ticket, you have to agree to this as part of the contract you make with the airline.

http://www.jetblue.com/p/jetblue_coc.pdf

Sorry, but taxis don't have anything like this.

Again, I don't accept that sitting on the ramp in an aircraft for 10 hours is warranted or proper. Caveat emptor. When flying with low cost airlines one must be wary of the quality of the service provided.

 

[tedtim]

"How do you measure 3 hours, and what do you use to set the standard at 3 hours?" tedtim

OK, look at your watch and if says 12 noon, [ both hands will be on the 12 ], make a note of that. Now, when the little hand is on the 3 and the big hand is on the 12, 3 hours have elapsed. Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

All we want, as passengers, is the freedom to get off a plane that is stuck in the holding area on the runway for 3 hours. After 3 hours whatever was causing the plane to be delayed should have reasonably been cleared up, and if it has not, chances are it will not. We want O F F

What cost is involved in that, that other passengers would have to pay?

Please re-read the second part - what do you use to set the standard at 3 hours? Why not 2, 4, 1, or 6 hours? Did you take a poll to determine that "all we want as passengers..." equates to 3 hours? My point is that what is reasonable to one person may not be perceived as such to another. When does the clock start ticking? From the time the aircraft is supposed to leave the gate, or when it actually does? When does the time end, from the time the aircraft starts to return to the gate or when it actually gets there?

Sorry, but I can no longer read an analog watch. Too used to digital.:mooner:

 

[pilot fish]

Nice link you provided. Thank you. I was unable to C&P it to post here. It says #25, they will, at passengers request, provide transportation on another carrier. Fine, then do that and don't keep us trapped for 11 hours. I have no problem with that.

NO business has the right to keep you locked up against your will, which is what this is. Mkes no difference if it's a plane, train, car, taxi, amusement ride, bus or trolley.

Just in case you have not read this, here is the Conditions of Carriage that forms part of a passenger's agreement with JetBlue. Other airlines have similar documents. See especially sections 25 and 26. When you buy a ticket, you have to agree to this as part of the contract you make with the airline.

http://www.jetblue.com/p/jetblue_coc.pdf

Sorry, but taxis don't have anything like this.

Again, I don't accept that sitting on the ramp in an aircraft for 10 hours is warranted or proper. Caveat emptor. When flying with low cost airlines one must be wary of the quality of the service provided.

 

[pilot fish]

OK, 3 hours was deemed a reasonable time, by the Passenger Bill of Rights proponents, that would give the airlines a fair chance to take care of whatever was causing the late departure. Any sooner would put the airline at a unfair disadvantage. 3 hours is a long time, I can tell you. I once had to wait 2 1/2 hours on a runway in Miami and was gettingvery damn antsy. You have to arrive at a time that is fair to both parties and it was felt that 3 hours, as long as that is, was enough time to give the airline before they had to depalne the passengers.

Clock starts ticking when they start taxiing to the runway, I think. That is a guess because I don't know, but it sounds fair

That was funny about the digital watch

Please re-read the second part - what do you use to set the standard at 3 hours? Why not 2, 4, 1, or 6 hours? Did you take a poll to determine that "all we want as passengers..." equates to 3 hours? My point is that what is reasonable to one person may not be perceived as such to another. When does the clock start ticking? From the time the aircraft is supposed to leave the gate, or when it actually does? When does the time end, from the time the aircraft starts to return to the gate or when it actually gets there?

Sorry, but I can no longer read an analog watch. Too used to digital.:mooner:

 

[tonka97]

Just in case you have not read this, here is the Conditions of Carriage that forms part of a passenger's agreement with JetBlue. Other airlines have similar documents. See especially sections 25 and 26. When you buy a ticket, you have to agree to this as part of the contract you make with the airline. http://www.jetblue.com/p/jetblue_coc.pdf

I'm no attorney, but the agreement may not stand up in court. Signing basic human rights away may not be valid.

What if the agreement you signed said, "customer will give his/her first born child to Jet Blue" ??? :huh: or "customer will kiss the CEO's buttocks" ??

One solution would be to get the majority of passengers in agreement, and simply exit the emergency doors, as a SAFETY MEASURE.

If a customer detected 'smoke' or 'gas' in the crowded cabin, an emergency evacuation would certainly be appropriate.

The interpretation of SAFETY MEASURE can be debated in the terminal, and customers' attorneys may be included in the 'resolution'.

 

[DandyDon]

Nice link you provided. Thank you. I was unable to C&P it to post here. It says #25, they will, at passengers request, provide transportation on another carrier. Fine, then do that and don't keep us trapped for 11 hours. I have no problem with that.

The problem with this one is that had an ontime departure that happened when they pushed away from the gate and started the ordeal. This didn't come into play until JB finally got the ppl back to the terminal.

FAA Rule 240 has an exception for weather related that they could have skated on if they hadn't blown the opportunity.

​

 

[tedtim]

And a quick search on other airline sites will lead you to similar wording in the conditions of carriage (or similar) documents.

Some of them set time limits, some of them set "reasonable" as the time limit. Trying to get a Bill of Rights would difficult at best and probably more unlikely given that all passengers agree to the conditions, otherwise they can't get the ticket.

Still, this is bad business practice. Walk with your feet to another airline.

Gotta go pack for a trip tomorrow. Weather looks good at my end.

 

[pilot fish]

JetBlue's flight cancellations continue but now they are claiming to offer a passenger Bill of Rights to its customers but declined to say what exactly that meant. This is a usual step by company's that fear the Gov will step in after they have messed up miserably, so they offer a watered down version of corrective action and institute self policing.


http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/19/news/companies/jetblue/index.htm?cnn=yes

 

[DandyDon]

I don't think it was JetBlue offering the Bill of Rights, but the news story referencing the one already being requested....

JetBlue debacle spurs passenger rights bill in congress
Rep. Michael Thompson plans to introduce a bill to address delays, time on tarmac, cancellations and lost bags. February 15 2007: 6:31 PM EST


WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The stranding of hundreds of passengers aboard JetBlue Airways Corp. planes for up to 10 hours Wednesday has revived calls to enact an airline customer rights law.

Rep. Michael Thompson, a California Democrat, said Thursday he planned to introduce a bill that would address delayed flights, time on the tarmac, cancellations, and lost or damaged luggage.

The airline industry beat back a similar push for legislation in 1999 after agreeing to a adopt a voluntary customer service initiative in response to a Detroit snowstorm that snarled Northwest Airlines operations.

"A lot of my colleagues who have heard about it have contacted me and expressed an interest" in the legislation, both in the House of Representatives and Senate, said Thompson in a telephone interview with Reuters.

JetBlue's chief executive said Thursday the airline would lose "many millions of dollars" after icy weather left passengers stranded on its planes at New York's John F. Kennedy airport.

"I don't blame our customers for being upset with this," David Neeleman told CNBC television. "It was one of these things that just spiraled out of control"

Neeleman said the airline was repeatedly assured on Wednesday that the icy weather was about to clear and the planes would soon be allowed to depart. "I think we'll learn from this and we'll certainly do better in the future."

One of Thompson's constituents, Kate Hanni, launched a drive for a passenger bill of rights after she was stranded on an AMR Corp. (Charts) American Airlines flight in Texas on Dec. 29.

Hanni and others want a passenger bill of rights to cap the time any delayed flight can languish on the tarmac without letting passengers get off. They also want the bill to specify compensation when airlines fail to deliver services as promised.

The Air Transport Association, a trade group of major U.S. airlines, said inflexible standards could do more harm than good.

"We think that one size doesn't fit all," said ATA spokesman David Castelveter. "We think the best solution continues to be to allow the flight crews and their operational experts to make these type of decisions."

Thompson said his legislation would provide a greater degree of comfort in air travel and do it without putting the airlines out of business.

"I think passenger anxiety is an all-time high," partly fed by what he described as the drudgery of post-9/11 security measures.

But there's good news for this airline...

Shares of JetBlue (Charts) closed 4.7 percent higher Thursday at $13.85 on Nasdaq. Goldman Sachs added JetBlue to its "buy" list saying the carrier's margin expansion would outpace most carriers in 2007.

I often pay more to fly Continental rather than American, and I'd certainly be willing to pay more to avoid this company...!

 

[Diver Dennis]

Neeleman said the airline was repeatedly assured on Wednesday that the icy weather was about to clear and the planes would soon be allowed to depart. "I think we'll learn from this and we'll certainly do better in the future."

I wonder who told them this?