PADI Wreck Specialty

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I have a couple of concerns about the PADI course.

An instructor can qualify to teach this class by being a PADI OW instructor, documenting 20 wreck dives and sending in the money for the specialty instructor card. The instructor may or may not have ANY training or experience diving in overhead environments but they can now teach it!

While the course may optionally include penetration (to the same limits of a cavern course), the wreck course does not require the same level of line drills (on land and in OW) as other overhead courses (including a cavern course). ok, students are required to run a line outside the wreck first but there's more to using lines and I don't think this is sufficient at all. They leave too much out to go into here.

The "emergency procedures listed also leave a lot to be desired especially since they leave so much out concerning line use. Another one to be aware of that jumped out at me is what they recommend in the case of a silt out. They recommend sitting still until it clears. that works in a cave where there's some flow but in a wreck it could take hours or even days for a silt out to clear...I hope you brought plenty of gas.

The course outline includes, what I would consider, an incomplete and inadequate explanation of the rule of thirds. I say that because gas matching isn't mentioned although there is no requirement for all students to use the same size tanks. Also, the outline instructs that the penetration third includes the descent. That's ok but it doesn't take into account that the ascent may be much slower and use more gas than the descent. The outlined prodedure should (if we assume gas matching) get divers out of the wreck in the event of gas loss but it may not get them to the surface. There is no discussion of taking individual RMV or ascent time/volume of both divers into account when calculating ascent gas reserve. They do, as usual, recommend a 15 ft hang tank. That's great but you have to be able to get to it. Keep in mind that one of the main reasons for applying the rule of thirds is to have enough gas to get both divers back to the surface in the worst case of a total gas loss at max penetration...wich is also not stated.

Can the instructor fill in the blanks? Where did the instructor learn it and who made certain that they did? Cearly the author of the outline wasn't up to speed.

Without the penetration option, the course might be a reasonable introduction to basic wreck diving. The penetration portion is a mess though and a potentially dangerous mess at that.

For the instructors here who said that they teach bag deployment at depth...the course standards don't mention it. PADI may consider it "adding a skill" and therfor not approve of the addition.
 
Divin'Hoosier:
Then what qualifications are they looking for? Let's say I want to do an intermediate wreck in 80-110 fsw (or ffw for that matter) with very limited if any penetation. What qualifications is the skipper going to look for?

What about for an advanced wreck with penetration possible (within recreational limits) in 120 fsw?

At 120 ft, the PADI "limits" only allow for a 10 ft penetration and at 120 no-stop time is pretty limited. I wouldn't plan a penetration at 120 as a no stop dive.

this course seems more of an FYI kind of thing and I've never heard of any one requireing it for anything.
 
*Floater*:
I was over at Subic, Philippines a few weeks ago. It's known for the wrecks so I asked the instructor there about a wreck course. He suggested the PADI specialty, but after I realized what it would include and not include (no real penetration and dives only within rec limits), I asked about taking a technical wreck course instead for which I'm qualified. He insisted I'd have to take the PADI specialty first, so I decided to pass on the whole thing. After some contemplation I'm glad I did. I'd rather go directly to technical wreck, or if I wasn't tech certified, then I'd take one of the other wreck courses taught by IANTD or one of the other agencies. Just my opinion. I'm sure there are people who are right for the PADI wreck specialty and could learn a lot from it given the right instructor.

I've never heard of any agency requireing a PADI wreck course as a prereq for anything. I would have called him on that one.
 
Ever since I did a dive on the spiegal grove for my AOW cert I've been hooked on diving on wrecks (no penetration yet of course cept for some swim thrus on the grove). Ive been planning on getting into tech and have seen in some places that there is an age rquirement of 18. I'm almost 17. Does TDI have an age limit for the advanced nitrox, deco procedures, and wreck certs?
 
Mike as always I find little to argue with BUT where do you think someone should start when they become interested in wrecks but don't want to follow in the footsteps of Chatterto, Kohler or Gentile. Is it possible that a PADI Inst. CAN teach a budding wreck diver what wreck diving involves and what steps they will need to take in order to pursue wreck diving. More specifically what steps would you reccomend someone take to be able to safely dive around wrecks and make limited penetrations in relativley clean wrecks?
 
Mike, you must be 18 years old to take Deco Procedures and Advanced Wreck. You could take Advanced Nitrox now, but there is no point in taking just that class.
 
MikeFerrara:
I've never heard of any agency requireing a PADI wreck course as a prereq for anything. I would have called him on that one.

I would have called him on it had I known what the prereqs were at the time, but I didn't. Later I looked them up and ANDI's tech wreck, which he teaches, only requires ANDI's TSD, or equivalent, which I've done. Anyway, I guessed he was full of it so I stayed away. With some instructors the 'put another dollar in' really holds true.
 
Divin'Hoosier:
Then what qualifications are they looking for? Let's say I want to do an intermediate wreck in 80-110 fsw (or ffw for that matter) with very limited if any penetation. What qualifications is the skipper going to look for?

What about for an advanced wreck with penetration possible (within recreational limits) in 120 fsw?

You can dive the Florida wrecks at 100-120 feet with AOW. The BTs are very short, much too short for any real penetration. Many AOW divers get into trouble on these dives. Wreck penetration is serious diving that demands serious training and a lot of diving experience. Why not find some 60 ft. wrecks to dive without penetration and slowly work your way up to deeper dives? Make some easy deeper dives before attemtping the deeper wrecks. Then get technical training if you want to penetrate wrecks.
 
There is a thin gray line that is being wiped away here. That is that true wreck penetration is considered technical diving. The definition I learned in all my tech classes was that anytime you enter into an overhead environment, it is a tech dive. It could be a cave, wreck, or deco obligation. PADI is a good recreational training agency and just like their open water course, the wreck diver course isn't going to teach someone to be a Chatterton, Kohler, or whoever. That only comes with a lot of experience and taking small steps along the way. I believe that it was PADI's intention to just introduce the diver to wreck diving when they came out with the program. I think all instructors who have participated in this thread can agree that the instructor outline is dated and missing some vital information and skills. Let's keep in mind here that this course is a recreational level course and meant to introduce someone to wreck diving. If one wants to learn true wreck penetration diving, then take a course like TDI's Advanced Wreck Diver from an experienced instructor.
 
Michael Schlink:
Mike as always I find little to argue with BUT where do you think someone should start when they become interested in wrecks but don't want to follow in the footsteps of Chatterto, Kohler or Gentile. Is it possible that a PADI Inst. CAN teach a budding wreck diver what wreck diving involves and what steps they will need to take in order to pursue wreck diving. More specifically what steps would you reccomend someone take to be able to safely dive around wrecks and make limited penetrations in relativley clean wrecks?

I think this is a fine introduction except for the penetration. The penetration limits are similar to a cavern course but the skill requirements are not and that doesn't make sense to me. As I mentioned before, I also think the instructor requirements are lax for the penetration part campared to what most agencies require of a cavern instructor. Even for the PADI cavern course the instructor is required to be at least intro cave trained...we at least know that he/she has actually been in an overhead before and has been shown how. Some other agencies actually require experience teaching/assisting.

In the old days, of course, there was no wreck training and a diver who wanted formal training took some amount of cave training. Now there are wreck diving courses. I'm not familiar with any other than this one but I think they're a good idea since wrecks are so different even though some of the basic skills cross over.

I guess my suggestion to a new recreational wreck diver would be a course like this but skipping the penetration...or doing the course with an instructor who is a real wreck and or cave diver/instructor so they can fill in the missing important pieces. I couldn't recommend doing any penetration without learning the appropriate line skills and gas management ect.

When I was an active PADI instructor, I was able to teach this course and the cavern course but I was teaching this one before I knew what I was doing...that's how I came to have the opinion that I do. LOL

My suggestion to the agency would be to bump up the instructor requirements similar to that of a cavern instructor and add the missing pieces to the course as long as penetration is offered as an option.
 

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