PADI vs NAUI

[Divedoggie]

In debating whether or not a specific rescue skill should be taught by NAUI or PADI, and attempting to establish the superiority of said agency based upon that one skill, I feel that the thread derails and loses sight of the big picture.

A noob wondering which agency to choose, should ask a few questions before signing up for a class. There are well respected instructors who have threads, posts, blogs, and lists posted in the past, which suggest questions a new student might want to ask. A prospective student should establish which program/instructor combo is best for him or her.
Here are some questions which come to mind:

Who is teaching the class? Full time Instructor? Variety of experience? Great communicator? Track record? Do all students pass the class? Testimonies from former students?

Can the Instructor work well with people who have different learning styles?

How many hours in class? In the pool? What does the curriculum look like? Does the class focus on education and training, or is there pressure for retail sales? How big are the classes?

What are the facilities and teaching venue lke? How realistic and challenging is the training? Big pool? How deep? Where is the Open Water site? Depth? Tempuratures? Exposure protection? Water clarity? Controlled environment? Shore diving, boat diving?

More detail: Does the course emphasize buoyancy control and trim? How about body awareness? Is there extra time provided to practice and repeat skills? Is there an emphasis on dive planning, buddy protocol and rescue skills? gas planning? What finning methods are taught? Are students taught about equipment choices and configuration, cylinder materials, capacities and buoyancy characteristics?

Are dive tables or computers or a combination taught for dive planning?

Oh, and if it still matters at this point, which agency will issue the cert card?

 

[DCBC]

..My biggest question up front is .. Realizing that a good instructor is the upmost importance, what certification agency is recommended... PADI or NAUI?

I provide this without the benefit of reading the comments of others...

Amongst Divers you will find a wide degree of opinion on most topics. Chances are that if someone shells out a lot of money for a particular brand of regulator that they will give an 'opinion' that the manufacturer of their regulator is absolutely the best make. This helps them justify themselves. People provide opinion based on their personal knowledge and viewpoint. Brand X is the best (although it's the only brand I have any experience with).

In the case of a certification agency, most prospective divers just don't have a clue. They walk into a Dive Shop and ask about SCUBA instruction. They may just sign-up, or compare the price of the training program. At that point, they are not in a good position to evaluate the differences. Many just want the card the easiest and least expensive way that they can get it.

Diving Instructors too have the same outlook. Once they become an instructor with one organization they feel that their Agency is the best (the same as the regulator they own).

To gain a more arms length opinion, one must ask an instructor who has experience with all agencies that you wish to compare. Another indication is the number of training hours and the curriculum of the training program. What does one teach that the other doesn't? Discuss these differences with experienced divers and make your choice accordingly.

As far as the comment "The Agency isn't important, it depends upon the Instructor." This isn't entirely accurate. Obviously there are differences in the quality of instruction that a student receives. All Instructors however are qualified to teach under the auspices of the Agency they are certified through. Despite that these 'standards' may be different between these agencies, all Instructors should have an ability to teach you to the certification requirements (which are also different between agencies). Regardless of how good the Instructor is, some Agencies restrict what the Instructor can teach you. This is why the "it solely depends on the Instructor" statement is misleading.

Over the years I've been an Instructor with both of the Agencies described (I've been teaching for 42 years). I left PADI several years ago (after 13 years) because I didn't agree with the restrictions that were placed on me (limiting the training requirements which I felt were insufficient). NAUI provides me with more freedom to teach beyond the 'standard' within the initial training program. One such area is that my basic students are taught expanded rescue skills and must possess good in-water swimming ability. My training program is approximately 50 hours and is much more difficult than a standard PADI program. The cost is less, as I teach through a Diving Club. This is not to say that with PADI you can't be trained appropriately, but in my experience one would have to take much more than one training program.

I recommend that you speak with local divers (keeping the regulator example in-mind) about their experiences with various shops and Instructors. Compare training hours and discuss matters with the Instructor. For some, the PADI course is preferable, as it does provide you with the basic knowledge required to dive in conditions that are most likely present in your area. For others who want something more comprehensive, a NAUI program may provide you with what you seek.

Blowing bubbles in warm clear water in paradise isn't the same as diving in ice water, poor visibility, waves, current and tidal flow. You really need to assess the type of diving you want to do and the conditions you want to do it in. Do you really want to learn, or do you just seek a card? You must compare your desires with that of the Instructor and his/her certification Agency. The choice is yours to make. Good luck!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That's harder than you might think for a noob. When I was signing up for classes, I almost signed up at one shop in town but changed to another after discovering the first shops' pool was not being properly maintained. It was only when I turned in the PADI medical clearance paperwork to my NAUI instructor that I discovered there was more than one certification agency. That was the night of the first class.

...and much later on scubaboard.com I discovered there's a bunch of different agencies... who knew? Not me.

I was the same way ... completely unaware there were such things as agencies until after I started my class at the YMCA. A co-worker asked me if I was getting trained by PADI. I said no ... I was getting trained by Loren (my instructor's name). In hindsight, it was an accidentally profound answer.

Peter asked if it was possible to agree to disagree. Yeah, I think it's possible. I'm not sure it's necessary, though. I chose the agency I chose to teach through for various reasons ... but mostly because I knew I wanted some degree of freedom to teach, and because I knew I wanted to teach independent of a dive shop. And while most (not all) agencies allow both of those things, the degree to which it's allowed and supported by the agency varies. The standards at that point were pretty much incidental ... standards are really a definition of the minimum that must be taught anyway, rather than the ceiling that a lot of people take them for. That's true with pretty much all agencies.

If there's anything I hold against most agencies ... and this includes my own ... it's that they set such a low bar for someone becoming an instructor. 100 dives is barely enough to be comfortable with your skills ... much less to have reached a proficiency level to be teaching them. There is so much about diving that is situational ... and without having adequate experience in a variety of different conditions and environments, it's impossible to really develop an understanding of what that means, much less have acquired the ability to pass that knowledge on to someone else. The biggest difference to the student, in terms of the teaching experience they will receive, won't be the agency ... or even the skills that get taught ... it will be the degree to which the instructor can explain what's being taught in a way that the student comprehends why it matters. The difference between the student who is confident, comfortable in the water, and building a solid foundation of basics vs the one who is apprehensive, uncomfortable, and thrashing around is often less a matter of skills than it is how the instructor approaches teaching them. This is completely independent of the agency or the standards for the class.

A good instructor challenges a student to think ... and provides them a solid basic foundation of skills that can be applied based on the circumstances of a particular dive. This can be amazingly successful or horribly flawed within the constraints of every agency's standard curriculum. And it's what people mean when they say "it's the instructor, not the agency, that matters."

I happen to believe very much in the program that my agency offers. I don't believe it's the only way to dive. I don't even believe it's the best way, necessarily ... I believe there is no such thing as the "best way" that applies to everyone. I do agree with Peter that it's the quality of what gets taught that matters, and that training someone to do a few things well is more important than training them to do a lot of things poorly.

What I appreciate most about NAUI is that they don't just allow me to adapt and expand my curriculum to fit the environment, or meet the specific needs of the student ... they actively support my doing so. We use what is called a "Loved One" standard ... before I certify a diver I must ask myself, would I trust this diver to buddy with someone I love? If the answer is no, I can justifiably not certify that student. It's subjective ... yes. So is diving. Every dive is situational. One of the most important ... and frequently overlooked ... skills is the ability to maintain an awareness of what's going on around you during a dive, so that you can make good decisions as the dive progresses. Find an instructor who teaches you how to think about diving, rather than how to react to it, and you will have made the right choice. At that point, the agency that instructor teaches for is irrelevent ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ProtectSharks]

i think you got it right at the first place,

depending on the Instructor ... every organization is trying to create good and safe divers .. with there own style and mission and philosophy's

Rescue Skills in OW ..??
really ..?? is the student not enough busy , learning proper buoyancy, swimming correctly, how to interact with the Environment, and basic skills of caring for your buddy, .>?? i think Rescue Skills should be in the Rescue Course ....basic skills helping a buddy like tired diver tow, cramp removal, sharing an AA Source and so on ... are in the PADI Course ...

you may think deviating from standards is a good thing ..?? try to explain that in a court case ... and good luck

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

you may think deviating from standards is a good thing ..?? try to explain that in a court case ... and good luck

... this is a tired, and usually irrelevent, argument often perpetuated by people who are too lazy to teach anything that isn't in the checklist.

Agency standards are, and were always meant to be, a description of the minimum that must be taught. All good instructors "deviate" to some degree.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ProtectSharks]

like i say ... explain it in a court case ... mabye you lucky and the judge is on your site .. that every "good instructor" deviate from standards to some degree ...

where are we going with that .. who is a good instructor and who isn't .. who decide ... what is a little bit and what is not .... where is the line ...

standards are there for a reason .. my opinion .. ( and you may have another one ... ) a good instructor sticks to standards ... and teaches divers within the standards to be safe and good divers .....

 

[Tigerman]

No a good instructor teach to the standards AND BEYOND.
Deviating from the standards with ADDITIONAL skills is not bad. Deviating from the standards by NOT TEACHING things thats in them IS..

 

[ProtectSharks]

you guy's don't and will not get it ...

so once again ....

who is the good instructor and who not ... what is good additional skills and what not ... unfortunately there is nobody to decide ... so again .. it will come down to a court case .....

but ... hey .. free mind .. this is just my opinion .. and respect that there are others out there who think that they are good instructors .. or would like to be one ... or none of the above and still teach additional great skills ...

good luck for you guy's deviating from standards .. hope you never have to explain why ...

 

[Hawkwood]

And a reminder that for some of us, we can teach "more" than the Standards, we just can't withhold certification based on that additional content.

 

[supergaijin]

No, the training was inadequate, as is the industry trend these days. The victim did not release weights on the surface and that action would have avoided the emergency. After he slipped below and became un responsive the dive buddy is now in a scenario he is not the least bit equipped for.

If a diver is taught to release weights in an OOA situation and makes exercises during the course to reinforce this... but then doesn't in a real-life situation... is that a failure of the training or a failure of the individual to 'apply' their training? If both divers do not think to establish buoyancy at the surface- what would realistically happen once it progressed past that?

good luck for you guy's deviating from standards .. hope you never have to explain why ...

Teaching things outside of what is written in the PADI manual is not deviating from standards. As has been pointed out, Standards mark the minimum training. Every teaching environment is different and some areas need adaptation of a course in order to meet said Standards. Even PADI recognises this. I suggest you go back and have a read.... or continue to troll.