PADI vs NAUI

[Walter]

Just out of curiosity, what would you like to do that would violate PADI standards?

It's not a matter of what I would like to do, it's what I do. Since I'm not a PADI instructor and have never taught to PADI standards, I'm not in violation, I'm teaching to higher standards.

Specifically, the order of presentation of skills in my class would violate PADI standards. For example, almost all of the requirements of confined water dive one, I don't introduce until at least the third pool session. The reason is almost all of the PADI requirements are on SCUBA. I introduce SCUBA in the third pool session. The first two pool sessions are devoted to the swim test (300 yds, 15 minutes afloat, and 50 ft underwater swim) and skin diving skills (blast and displacement methods of snorkel clearing, breathing through a flooded snorkel, no mask breathing, mask clearing, clearing a mask at least 3 times on a single breath, mask/snorkel recovery from pool bottom, flutter kick, frog kick, scissor kick, dolphin kick, head first and feet first surface dives). All basic things everyone should be able to do before starting SCUBA. Also, PADI standards require such things as "swim underwater with scuba equipment while maintaining control of both direction and depth...." in confined water one while introducing "Adjust for proper weighting...." in confined water two. Fin pivots are then introduced in confined water three. In my opinion, that is putting the cart before the horse.

I prefer to teach skills in a logical order in which one builds upon previous successes.

I also teach and require other skills PADI does not require in any order.

The standards merely state that if you ran a PADI training course, the diver should be certified as a PADI diver and not receive a different certificate.

Not exactly. My attorney pointed out to me that while PADI standards do say that, they also say you must issue the certification if the student meets all of PADI's requirements. An instructor may not add requirements. PADI standards state, "you must....issue a PADI certification to all divers who satisfactorily meet the preformance requirements." When you add a requirement such as, "As an intructor *I* decide if the student has shown that he is capable of diving safely," you are in violation of PADI standards. As an SEI instructor, I can and I do add just such a requirement because SEI has no statement like PADI's in their standards. As a PADI instructor you can only get away with it if the student is not aware of the statement in PADI's standards.

 

[MarcelT]

Maybe I should add that I do have the luxury (or depending on your view - bad luck ) to have a nondiving day job to pay for the bills. So for me it is easy to put quality first, since diving and teaching diving is my passion and not my primary source of income... (hence the refund)

But I stll believe that most instructors, PADI or not, are in it to get divers trained properly and take this very seriously.

I will ask PADI about the standards thing, the answer should only be a phonecall away...

Thanks, I hope you will join me at WorldDiveMap.com and build this site by adding descriptions, reviews, photos etc. My dream is to create a global site on dive locations for all to use free of charge.

Happy diving,
Marcel

 

[Thalassamania]

Maybe I should add that I do have the luxury (or depending on your view - bad luck ) to have a nondiving day job to pay for the bills. So for me it is easy to put quality first, since diving and teaching diving is my passion and not my primary source of income... (hence the refund)

I have always had the responsibility (and ability) to put quality first, and unlike you, as a university Diving Safety Officer I had few distractions from doing so.

But I stll believe that most instructors, PADI or not, are in it to get divers trained properly and take this very seriously.

I don't doubt that most instructors in all agency mean well, I just doubt if they actually know what "proper" diver training might look like or have what it takes to do so. I'm not saying that it is their personal fault, just that it is.

I will ask PADI about the standards thing, the answer should only be a phonecall away...

I suppose you doubt my quote and Walter's post?

 

[BoltSnap]

Specifically, the order of presentation of skills in my class would violate PADI standards. For example, almost all of the requirements of confined water dive one, I don't introduce until at least the third pool session. The reason is almost all of the PADI requirements are on SCUBA. I introduce SCUBA in the third pool session. The first two pool sessions are devoted to the swim test (300 yds, 15 minutes afloat, and 50 ft underwater swim) and skin diving skills (blast and displacement methods of snorkel clearing, breathing through a flooded snorkel, no mask breathing, mask clearing, clearing a mask at least 3 times on a single breath, mask/snorkel recovery from pool bottom, flutter kick, frog kick, scissor kick, dolphin kick, head first and feet first surface dives). All basic things everyone should be able to do before starting SCUBA. Also, PADI standards require such things as "swim underwater with scuba equipment while maintaining control of both direction and depth...." in confined water one while introducing "Adjust for proper weighting...." in confined water two. Fin pivots are then introduced in confined water three. In my opinion, that is putting the cart before the horse.

I prefer to teach skills in a logical order in which one builds upon previous successes.

This is what I do myself. I am glad that I am not the only one. Once a prospective diver is comfortable in their swimming AND skin diving skills, learning scuba skills is no problem.

 

[MarcelT]

I suppose you doubt my quote and Walter's post?

I would just like to know if I am acting against standards if I do not certify a student I feel is not ready to dive safely, even though the requirements have been met... Interesting

 

[Thalassamania]

As they say in court, "asked and answered."

 

[mdb]

Burhan: How nice it is to see you posting on our forum issues after your time and trials in Libya. We are very pleased to have you back.

 

[BoltSnap]

mdb,

It is REALLY nice to be around. I just got the news that my 5 year old son is doing well in Benghazi with his mother and her family. The news from Libya is very encouraging. Open revolts in all areas of western part of Libya and within 40Km of Tripoli.

It is great to be FREE.

 

[suunto_diver]

@ MarcelT > I think it is much better to consult a course director or instructor trainer on ur certifying agency..Your point was VERY interesting indeed!..ON my case even if the student has complied with all the PERFORMANCE requirements and i found out that somehow he is "NOT" ready to dive, I always see to it that i have raised the ISSUES that made me think "HE IS NOT READY TO DIVE"..i somehow think that this concern of yours is a bit about on the STUDENT DIVER's character or ethics that may result to certain possible dive emergencies in the future..

 

[Thalassamania]

@ MarcelT > I think it is much better to consult a course director or instructor trainer on ur certifying agency..Your point was VERY interesting indeed!..ON my case even if the student has complied with all the PERFORMANCE requirements and i found out that somehow he is "NOT" ready to dive, I always see to it that i have raised the ISSUES that made me think "HE IS NOT READY TO DIVE"..i somehow think that this concern of yours is a bit about on the STUDENT DIVER's character or ethics that may result to certain possible dive emergencies in the future..

I am really starting to wonder if posting here is worth the time. We've had this conversation many, many times (which the search function will show if you're willing to take the time) and we told you what the facts of the matter are. But you need to bask in the glow of some not yet wet behind the ears CD who has a small fraction of the knowledge and experience that Walter posses before you will understand that you are dead wrong. MarcelT's point was not "very interesting" but rather displayed an appalling lack of knowledge concerning the standards of his agency which, I fear you seem to suffer from also. I hate to think what else there might be that y'all have yet to grasp.

The fact is that PADI does not permit you the option that you both want to take, that is a rather clear example of why Walter and I eschew PADI.