PADI vs cave agency side mount?

[WhiteSands]

I have a credit with a dive shop for a PADI specialty class, and I'd love to take side mount and save myself the $$$$ of taking a cave side mount class before/during my cavern class. Think that'll fly? or is PADI side mount kind of a joke (as I am beginning to fear much of their classes might be).

Thanks.

My friend took it. I wouldn't recommend it. A joke will be the right word to describe it.

My friend is an OW instructor who took the Side Mount speciality from another instructor.

She said he was floating all over the place when demonstrating skills. Horrible buoyancy control. And worse, she recently realized after more research that he basically taught her wrongly on some drills.

After her course was done, the DC she took it at asked her if she wanted to become a SM instructor. Having no experience, she declined.

So yeah.

 

[gearhound]

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Since he was Florida trained, I've always used this image as why not to take a sidemount course from someone in Florida I guess it's bad to make generalizations!
There is actually a requirement on page 26 of the PADI Sidemount Diver Course Instructor Guide for "proper trim" and to "Arrange your cylinders so that they're inline with your body." I can't guarantee whether some instructors follow that or not, but the requirement is there.

And here is a video of some PADI Sidemount instructors. Heck, one is even a Course Director.
https://vimeo.com/82055628

 

[karstdvr]

View attachment 183384​

"proper trim" and to "Arrange your cylinders so that they're inline with your body."

I have not read the PADI course material,and for just plain OW sidemount diving,where there is no chance of overhead,then this system and appearance may be just fine. Cave divers will look at this critically,but my OW poodle jacket would make most people cringe,and rebuke me. This picture does reinforce one thing,the old schoold method of attaching cylinders with a carrbiner to a hard point on the harness,would eliminate this,versus using a butt plate.

 

[victorzamora]

Kelly, one thing you're right about is it "working" in OW scenarios. However, streamlining your tanks is just like streamlining the rest of your gear.....it's a matter of pride, if nothing else. Having the tanks properly mounted would lead to shorter hose lengths and cleaner routing. That cleaner routing would lead to less chance of entanglement....this is important in many OW scenarios, as well as overhead (obviously).

As far as rebuking you for a poodle jacket, many would....you're right. While I don't understand that in the slightest, it's your right to dive as you wish. As long as you have good buoyancy control and don't ruin the vis or hurt the reef/life.....I have very little interest in how you dive or what gear you use to accomplish those goals.

As far as carabiner vs butt-plate, I think these photos are a very unfair measure for that statement. My tanks look MUCH better than that, perpetually....and I use a buttplate. Edd's tanks look perfect, all the time, and he never uses anything BUT his buttplate. Proper tank alignment can be achieved through various equipment configurations ('biner and butt-plate included), and experience will determine what works for an individual and their circumstances. That's why these weekend-long courses are at fault, not buttplates or alphabet soup on the card or class. A good instructor, with true experience, and honest pride in their work is THE ONLY key to a successful course. If you are self-taught, those same principals apply.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

sidemount | Jeff Loflin This is proof that just because someone claims to be a sidemount instructor they don't really have a clue.

... and for an extra $200 you'll now be qualified to teach others how to sidemount.

Imagine taking a sidemount class from someone who's only had four dives in the gear themselves ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fiziks]

... and for an extra $200 you'll now be qualified to teach others how to sidemount.

Imagine taking a sidemount class from someone who's only had four dives in the gear themselves ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I believe PADI requires a sidemount instructor to have a minimum of 10 dives if they take a sidemount instructor course or a minimum of 20 sidemount dives in open water and a certification in sidemount (or equivalent from another agency) if applying to teach the sidemount course without having taken the instructor course. It may be more, I know they require more experience for some of the technical specialties.

But as someone once told me, if you don't learn from each dive, then you don't have the experience of twenty dives, you just have one dives worth of experience repeated 20 times.

With GoPro cameras being so common these days, I would think use of UW video to show students exactly how they look would be extremely beneficial for something like a sidemount course.

 

[karstdvr]

As far as carabiner vs butt-plate, I think these photos are a very unfair measure for that statement. My tanks look MUCH better than that, perpetually....and I use a buttplate. Edd's tanks look perfect, all the time, and he never uses anything BUT his buttplate. Proper tank alignment can be achieved through various equipment configurations ('biner and butt-plate included), and experience will determine what works for an individual and their circumstances. That's why these weekend-long courses are at fault, not buttplates or alphabet soup on the card or class. A good instructor, with true experience, and honest pride in their work is THE ONLY key to a successful course. If you are self-taught, those same principals apply.

You are correct there is successful training available that address many problems inherent. Many of us dive steel tanks which eliminate some of the problems seen in the picture,and obviously the model has "floaty" 80's,which can be difficult to keep in a streamlined position. What I am suggesting is that sidemount divers look back into the past and see if there are better things out there that the equipment manufacturers don't provide. The butt plate method or the system created by Bill Rennaker, is the system being copied the most,and what I see is manufacturers using this one template,but no wholesale changes or creativity. I think if we look back a ways,even going to the CDG,there are some real nifty solutions,and unique configurations.

 

[Subcooled]

It is not healthy to take a cave diving course without any experience in the open water or pool first. It is a new configuration. It feels different. It functions differently. Your cavern diving instructor may include open water / pool training in the course. Discuss this with him. Unfamiliar configurations can lead to unwanted situations in the overhead environment.

I would not accept sidemount training from anyone with less than 100-200 sidemount dives in varying conditions. Does this PADI professional have that amount of experience in sidemount configuration?

 

[tursiops]

I have many sidemount dives (mostly in caves), PADI teaching credentials for sidemount, and TDI teaching credentials for sidemount.
So if you were to take a PADI sidemount class from me, it would be what you are looking for.
But you can't tell that just from knowing I teach PADI sidemount.
You are taking the class from an instructor, not an agency.
So check out the instructor, and stop worrying about the agency.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Agreed. There are good PADI SM instructors out there. IF you look you may find that the good ones started with someone else and crossed over but that's because it's such a new thing with PADI. I have good friend that is a PADI Instructor and he just did his basic sidemount class (diver level not instructor). With a TDI CD. He felt more comfortable doing it that way.