PADI tables finally going away?

[tomfcrist]

How many students in a typical class? Does the $450 include the OW dives as well? How long are the CW dives?

What kind of overhead expenses do you pay? Do you have to own and maintain all your own equipment? Do you have to rent pool time? Do you have to rent classroom space?

I just went to your profile and see that you are in the Navy. Is this is any way related to the Navy, or is it all independent of that?

Wow again...inquisitive aren't you.

No more than 4 students in a class. Yes i own, maintain and insure my own equipment, No i dont have to pay for the pool, and no i dont rent classroom space. This is a very you scratch my back and i scratch yours industry....I require my students to own at least thier own Mask, Fins, Snorkel, and Weight belts. I merely steer them in the direction of a particular shop, and in return i can use thier facilitys free of charge. Its called buisness.

Yes! I am a sailor! No i dont teach for the NAVY, however many of my students are affiliated in one way or the other.

Any other questions? Im not sure how any of this relates to teaching Tables primarily or PDC's primarily.....so if you have a point that you are trying to get out of all of this I'm all ears.

 

[tomfcrist]

Sorry i missed a few questions.
Yes the $450 includes OW dives, and CW dives are usually 2 hours at a time.

 

[boulderjohn]

Wow again...inquisitive aren't you.

No more than 4 students in a class. Yes i own, maintain and insure my own equipment, No i dont have to pay for the pool, and no i dont rent classroom space. This is a very you scratch my back and i scratch yours industry....I require my students to own at least thier own Mask, Fins, Snorkel, and Weight belts. I merely steer them in the direction of a particular shop, and in return i can use thier facilitys free of charge. Its called buisness.

Yes! I am a sailor! No i dont teach for the NAVY, however many of my students are affiliated in one way or the other.

Any other questions? Im not sure how any of this relates to teaching Tables primarily or PDC's primarily.....so if you have a point that you are trying to get out of all of this I'm all ears.

I was asking from a business standpoint, that's all. I surveyed about a half a dozen shops in Virginia on the Internet, and I found that with one exception, almost all offer class that take less than half the time yours does and cost between half and two thirds what your does. (There was one glaring exception.)

It is a common belief that it will be difficult to compete in a market in which people can get the same certification for much less time and money, so it is interesting to see that it does not appear to be true in your case.

 

[tomfcrist]

I was asking from a business standpoint, that's all. I surveyed about a half a dozen shops in Virginia on the Internet, and I found that with one exception, almost all offer class that take less than half the time yours does and cost between half and two thirds what your does. (There was one glaring exception.)

It is a common belief that it will be difficult to compete in a market in which people can get the same certification for much less time and money, so it is interesting to see that it does not appear to be true in your case.

IT's all how you market your advertising. Most shops around here advertise extremely cheap classes. Then they charge you for you ow dives, rental equipment, and a c card. I am all inclusive exluding personal gear. This makes me about 300 bucks cheaper than the mainstream shops in the area. Shops advertise a super low class price so they can get you in the door, have you commited to a class and THEN pillage your wallet. Once word gets around... They come see me.

 

[Snorkelboy]

I think thats funny, , I have used the tables on every dive since my OW cert. in addition to my computers. I have been looking for a set of those thin plastic one's you can fold up and stick in a pocket should your computer fail. To me that has always been part of the "Plan your Dive, Dive your Plan" expression, that I dive by. Although after there repeated use I have noticed that some times I can guess with in a few minutes the NDL times by depth.

Just in case, I did notice that when I bought my son the PADI OW crew pac it had an "eRDP" in it that I thought sucked, but it was easy enough to figure out. Maybe thats what you mean, out with the old plastic ones and in with this new calculator looking thing that is only good on land. Then yes it does appear that the Padi tables are heading out in that format.

The computer: Those "newbs" you have seen probably did not take the time to read the manuals that are provided by the manufacturer. If I remember the only requirement for OW through PADI you only had to have one time piece. The responsibility falls on the individual to read the computers manual to figure out the functions. Personally its my favorite part of a new purchase, I always learn some thing I would have otherwise over looked, like the backlite or setting dual time zones.

 

[tomfcrist]

And for what it's worth John, I can completely understand why at your location it would be more prudent to teach PDC's....altitude and all. Just isn't a necessity here at the beach.

 

[John_B]

Expanding this to how we get OW divers to plan their dives is probably broadening an already expansive threat to the point of making it impossible to follow. I'd love to see that discussion but in my mind it's somewhat outside of the scope of the primary point here.

Outside the scope?

The reason they don't plan their dives is that some sold them a PDC for OW dive #5 and told them they can forget about tables because the computer will do the thinking for them. So, by all means, take the tables away before OW dive #1...

 

[Kingpatzer]

Outside the scope?

The reason they don't plan their dives is that some sold them a PDC for OW dive #5 and told them they can forget about tables because the computer will do the thinking for them. So, by all means, take the tables away before OW dive #1...

I disagree with that premise.

In my view the reason the average diver doesn't plan their dives is that the average diver shows up at the resort, gets on the boat, is told the profile, and then told to jump in and follow the DM right after the briefing. When asked about details of the dive plan, the DM will inform the person to either surface with 500 psi in the tank, or when their computer tells them it's time to come up, whichever comes first.

It doesn't matter what tools a person is using to plan their dive when the dive professionals do not model appropriate dive planning behavior.

 

[The Chairman]

From another discussion:

My computer was my first purchase after getting certified. In fact, my first "certified" dive was done with a computer. I think it was one of the best early purchases I made!

This is so common and unfortunately, these people are not trained on how best to use this tool.

 

[The Chairman]

The responsibility falls on the individual to read the computers manual to figure out the functions.

That has FAIL written all over it. Should we do the same with the regulator or the BCD, and let the sum of their dive training be the reading of the various gear manuals?

The instructor's job is to connect the dots for the student in such a manner as to increase safety and competence. It's great to know that you have an ascent alarm, but what does that really mean in terms of physiology and more specifically to you? If you don't explain the dangers of riding the NDL all the way to the surface, then the diver may never connect that with that comatose tired feeling he keeps getting after every dive. Pushing buttons comes easy: understanding what the readouts mean is more challenging.