PADI tables finally going away?

[The Chairman]

what the hell do you think the pdc software is based on? TABLES.

Well, you are completely wrong here. Not just a little bit wrong, but completely and absolutely wrong. Let me explain. Both tables and PDCs are based on algorithms. Now, an algorithm is a set of calculations/programs/executions that are used to solve a problem. Your Data mask uses the DSAT algorithm, which happens to be the same algorithm that they used to create PADI's tables. In other words, they share a common source and are in many ways like two kids from the same parents. Saying that the PDC came from tables is like saying I came from my older sister: kinda creepy and oh-so-wrong. Oi, that gave me the willies! Next you'll have us singing "I am my own grandpa" as we try to make your logic fit reality!

Taking away someone's PDC would be like taking the watch and depth gauge from any old timer. You would have a lot of "Deer in the headlight" looks from them as well. Heck, thats how I began my diving career (without any gauges or watch), but apparently some gators can learn new tricks! Things have changed for the better since 1969!

No one is saying that tables are "bad". A few of us are saying that they are antiquated for the modern OW diver. They aren't going to use them, so why force feed them something they will resent? If all they want to learn how to use is a PDC, then that's their choice just as it's YOUR choice to continue to use tables even though you probably have no clue how to run a set of algorithms in order to produce a set.

I hope this helps.

 

[Paladin]

I do not believe the tables will ever go away entirely. There will always be those who prefer to do things in a more self-reliant manner. While gadget lovers feel they must have and use only the latest technologies simply for the sake of having the new technology, there will always be those who dislike or distrust certain technologies.

I am an A+ certified computer tech. I build my own computers and can build a computer network practically blindfolded. Just because I understand and use computers does not mean that I consider then indispensable. They are a convenience, nothing more. I don't want them in every aspect of my life. It is partly because I do understand computers and electronics that I do not trust them to handle anything important.

I drive a 1986 Chevrolet Suburban partly because I do not like a vehicle controlled by computers, sensors and junk. My truck has a purely mechanical 4-barrel carburetor of the old set-it-and-forget-it technology. No sensors and no computer. If it acts up, I know instantly what the problem is. I do not need to pay some high priced mechanic to test a bunch of sensors and circuitry every time some little thing goes wrong. I just buy a part, grab my tools and fix it.

Modern cars are high tech and make a lot of your decisions for you. Going someplace? Your car will hold your hand and guide you there. Not only that, somebody someplace is using that technology to track your every move and know where you are and how fast you are going. But look on the road. There are still plenty of drivers in older cars that don't want to be babysat by the folks at OnStar.

Modern hunters have a plethora of ultra high tech weapons from which to choose; weapons that make it possible to bag an unsuspecting game animal from as far as 1000 yards. But a growing number of hunters are dusting off their great-great-grandpa's smokepole and powder horn because they prefer to do things the old way. They think it's more fun. I use a Hawkin .50, myself.

Diving is the same way. Even though the dive industry is pushing all the high tech gadgets and working overtime to convince the unsuspecting newbie that all this stuff is absolutely necessary, there will always be those who see through the smoke and mirrors to a purer, more traditional way of diving. There is room for both the gadget freak (no offense intended) who cruises the LDS drooling over the latest and (arguably) greatest doodads to come down the pike and the purist who enjoys diving with only what is actually needed for the dive and prefers to do his thinking for himself.

I happen to be one of the latter. All I need for an enjoyable dive is a tank with a J valve, a regulator, a depth gauge, and a watch. I plan my dive before I hit the water using the Navy tables. I follow my plan and return to the surface when it's time to. This is my preference. I do not need, or want, a computer. I am not alone. There are many who feel the same way I do. Just because something is old doesn't make it obsolete.

Net Doc: You say you want to teach divers to use computers exclusively. What will you do if a student tells you he does not want to use a computer and would rather use the tables?

 

[The Chairman]

well excuse me !!!!!!

Not if you aren't willing to listen.

I find it somewhat strange that having asked the question to some of the "instructors" here to explain in detail to me how to dive without a pdc have gone silent? could it be that they know the answer but are to dam arrogant to admit it?

I would dive in exactly the same fashion as you would without a depth gauge or watch. You can now tell us how you would do that. We are waiting.

 

[gndpdr]

and yet again you come up with a long statement but refuse to explain how to dive without a pdc? go ahead say it honest you won't die ...so again how do you plan a dive without a pdc? me i sit down with the guys i dive with ask who is using what tables and why .find a happy medium plan the dive using the agreed upon tables each writing the depth and times for the plan on a slate set watches and dive ...not using a pdc

 

[The Chairman]

Net Doc: You say you want to teach divers to use computers exclusively. What will you do if a student tells you he does not want to use a computer and would rather use the tables?

Teach him tables or ask him to find someone else if I am too busy. Heck, there are times I ask that of those wanting to learn to dive with a PDC. I am pretty busy with ScubaBoard.

 

[The Chairman]

and yet again you come up with a long statement but refuse to explain how to dive without a pdc? go ahead say it honest you won't die ...so again how do you plan a dive without a pdc?

Badger me all you want to... but I answered you. I have also answered this earlier in the thread. I don't think you want to do anything but to beat people around the ears with this. There is no difference between diving with a malfunctioning/missing PDC and without a depth gauge/watch.

You have yet to comment on how preposterous your concept of PDCs being based on tables. You are obviously not willing to listen and then you are quick to proclaim some sort of victory. Read and comprehend first.

 

[*dave*]

I use iDeco. There, I said it.

Pete, what he's trying to get you to say is that you would use the tables if you didn't have access to a PDC. gndpdr, is that close?


It actually raises a good question: Would you dive if you didn't have a computer? I would... and do. My students can, as well.

The instructions are actually printed on most tables. They're pretty simple, so the don't take up a lot of room.

I think divers should have options and I also believe a good ow course should present the most viable options available. We have jackets for our students, but I'm going to discuss all types and demo most.

and yet again you come up with a long statement but refuse to explain how to dive without a pdc? go ahead say it honest you won't die ...so again how do you plan a dive without a pdc? me i sit down with the guys i dive with ask who is using what tables and why .find a happy medium plan the dive using the agreed upon tables each writing the depth and times for the plan on a slate set watches and dive ...not using a pdc

 

[gndpdr]

dave ..YES THANK YOU ...

 

[The Chairman]

I use iDeco. There, I said it.

Pete, what he's trying to get you to say is that you would use the tables if you didn't have access to a PDC. gndpdr, is that close?


It actually raises a good question: Would you dive if you didn't have a computer? I would... and do. My students can, as well.

The instructions are actually printed on most tables. They're pretty simple, so the don't take up a lot of room.

I think divers should have options and I also believe a good ow course should present the most viable options available. We have jackets for our students, but I'm going to discuss all types and demo most.

Dave, I would dive without a PDC and without a table. Heck, I've even dove without a depth gauge. Most students who have enough experience already know what their dives are going to be for any particular depth and many even know what their repetitive dive will be: ALL WITHOUT TABLES. Can they pick up a set and use them? Sure. I just did my Advanced NitrOx and Deco Procedures on gauge only (with a back up PDC). It's not hard, but I still don't feel a need to teach them.

While trying to get his bit of flesh in order to prove his point, he has yet to answer what I have pointed out about his concept of where tables and PDCs originate. He's completely wrong there.

 

[gndpdr]

i stand corrected for mistating "table" for algorithm i prefer navy tables i carry both navy and padi. that said there only so many algorithms that can be used the human body is only able to withstand so much. there is a limit no matter what algorithm you use.now that being said how many different pdc makers use how many different algorithms for each model? now take that and use say 8 divers each with a different pdc , now take all 8 divers to a set depth and time ,after the time has reached it's limit all 8 divers make a safe ascent ,take all 8 pdc's and compare the information ,how many variations will you have? now if you repeat that using one table you will all have the same result what gets me is someone stating that because his/her pdc took a dump the dive is over is silly. why is the dive over? did his/her brain stop working? how hard is it to look at your analog package and watch/bottom timer? if and when my pdc crapsout the only thing i want to know is how much is this going to cost to fix?i have as of yet to see a set of tables crapout.