PADI OW tread/float test

[TMHeimer]

Agree with the last 2 posts. I do like the BSA detailed descriptions--leaves little or nothing to debate--particlularly the specific strokes. If you are classified as a "non-swimmer" I assume that means you can't begin (continue, etc.) the scuba course.
PADI is less specific, which is OK, but perhaps may lead to discussions as to what is allowed on both tests and what is considered comfortable.
Also agree this leads to overthinking and keeping this thread going (as I post yet again....).

 

[BikerBecca]

Where does it say that? The standards for the course do NOT mention "tread," it is called "swim/float".

Yeah, that's what my PADI Instructor Manual reads too. From the instructor manual:

"Before Open Water Dive 2, have student divers demonstrate that they can comfortably maintain themselves in water too deep in which to stand by completing a 10-minute swim/float without any swim aids.

At some point before certification, have students complete a 200 metere/yard continuous surface swim or a 300 metere/yard swim with mask, fins and snorkel.

If conditions warrant, students may wear an exposure suit as long as they are weighted for neutral buoyancy."

EDIT: OP did say website and it does read, "Float and tread water for 10 minutes, again using any methods you want."

 

[JackD342]

Agree with the last 2 posts. I do like the BSA detailed descriptions--leaves little or nothing to debate--particlularly the specific strokes. If you are classified as a "non-swimmer" I assume that means you can't begin (continue, etc.) the scuba course.
PADI is less specific, which is OK, but perhaps may lead to discussions as to what is allowed on both tests and what is considered comfortable.
Also agree this leads to overthinking and keeping this thread going (as I post yet again....).

The BSA swimmers test is not for scuba, they defer to agency standards there. It is for all other aquatic activities. Swimming areas are segregated by ability, and rules for watercraft vary by ability. If I recall correctly, higher standard of ability is required for a canoe than for a row boat.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

Yeah, that's what my PADI Instructor Manual reads too. From the instructor manual:

"Before Open Water Dive 2, have student divers demonstrate that they can comfortably maintain themselves in water too deep in which to stand by completing a 10-minute swim/float without any swim aids.

At some point before certification, have students complete a 200 metere/yard continuous surface swim or a 300 metere/yard swim with mask, fins and snorkel.

If conditions warrant, students may wear an exposure suit as long as they are weighted for neutral buoyancy."

EDIT: OP did say website and it does read, "Float and tread water for 10 minutes, again using any methods you want."

The difference between IM and PADI website annoys me. Personally, I like the specificity and added options for the DM standard.

 

[TMHeimer]

The BSA swimmers test is not for scuba, they defer to agency standards there. It is for all other aquatic activities. Swimming areas are segregated by ability, and rules for watercraft vary by ability. If I recall correctly, higher standard of ability is required for a canoe than for a row boat.

That's very interesting. So does BSA have anything to do with Scuba? I am ignorant here-- what about a canoe? If you don't pass the swim test you can't operate one?

Seaweed Doc, Yes, as I mentioned I too like the DM descriptions better.

 

[JackD342]

BSA has a Scuba Merit Badge, of which one of the six requirements is to earn an Open Water certification from a recognized agency. At one time that list was PADI, NAUI, SSI, IDEA, PDIC, SDI, and any member of WRSTC, although the list may have changed. An odd note is that one of the Merit Badge requirements is to earn the Swimming Merit Badge prior to starting on the Scuba Merit Badge. But of course nothing prevents a scout from getting certified without any mention of the merit badge. So I have to both wear and reconcile two hats when discussing the topic with a scout - PADI Instructor, and BSA Merit Badge counselor.

They also operate 3 National High Adventure Bases, one of which is the Florida Sea Base, which started out as a scuba program and grew into much more. PADI Open Water certification is one of the offered programs. Sea Base Adventures

There are probably some regional High Adventure Camps or even just BSA Summer Camps that have also incorporated scuba into their program, but I am not personally aware of any. There are definitely guidelines available for those camps to operate a program. There may be added prerequisites for participation under the scouting umbrella, such as stricter age limits, but the actual scuba operation is left to the local contractor providing the program and the agency they teach.

There is also a "Scuba BSA" patch/program available, that is basically little more than a DSD experience. So if a local shop (assuming contracts, insurance, etc. is in order) is able to just swing by a camp once a week while in session and run a DSD in the pool, scouts can earn the cool patch and get a taste of scuba. A similar program is included in the National Jamborees, in a pool I think is no deeper than 3 or 4 feet.

If you want full details on other aquatic activity requirements, just Google "Guide to Safe Scouting." I think the requirement for using a canoe is to be a swimmer, or a beginner buddied with an adult skilled swimmer. For a rowboat, I think the buddy can be another scout that is a swimmer. Look over the Guide to Safe Scouting, they have done a pretty good job of covering every eventuality but it is definitely a living document with regular additions, revisions, and clarifications. Although I think those only happen once per year rather than quarterly, like a certain certification agency we all know.

 

[TMHeimer]

JackD, Thanks for the details. I really like the idea of the Swim Merit Badge being required before starting the Scuba Merit Badge. That makes a ton of sense to me.
You won't believe why I was a little confused. I forgot what BSA stands for. Well, 42 years in Canada......Here the organisations (or organizations if you will) are called Guides.

 

[Alan Browne]

My wife can hover in a pool vertically with almost no movement of limbs. She is astonished when observing how my legs sink like stones.

Many moons ago at a friend's lake house I was getting his son (about 7) to remove his obnoxious arm floats.

"But I don't float!"
"Sure you will - just need to flutter kick a little."

His father came along:
"He doesn't float."
"Ridiculous! Everyone floats enough," I claimed.

His mother came along:
"He doesn't float."
"C'mon! Don't be silly!" Eyes rolling.

(Sister came along too, I'll let you fill that one in yourself).

So, I got the boy to remove his arm floats.

Sank like a stone in 2 metres or so of water.

"Told you," said the father.
"Told you," said the mother.
(Sister's statement, well, you know.)

So I eventually went down to find an un-panicked boy, and hauled him up.

"I told you I don't float," he said.

For my part I can tread water ever so gently until I'm too cold to stay. Red cross "badges" as a kid.

 

[TMHeimer]

My uncle John taught me to float in Long Island Sound off our boat when I was maybe 6 (?). You know, on your back, arms & legs straight out. I can float in salt water without sculling, but barely--enough to keep my nose out to breathe. I saw an OW student years ago doing this in the pool, with what seemed to be 2/3 of his body sticking out above the surface. An amazing couch potato.
All the years I've been in (motel) swimming pools I instinctively knew that if I swam to the deep end I had to keep going and grab the ladder or pool side or I would sink. Never had the need to analyse why I couldn't float in fresh water but could in salt. So I get back to asking--what does being able to easily float without any aids (much less 2 minutes with hands out) really prove? The most in shape diver who is totally comfortable in water may still sink like a stone unless sculling like a madman.
If my boat sank in the middle of Lake Huron thank God for drown-proofing.
When you through scuba into the mix it all evens out since we're all supposed to be properly weighted. So, if one jumps off a boat with air off and BC deflated wearing a ton of weight, you have to have the presence of mind to drop your weights.

 

[martincohn]

OW Tread/Float specialty?

...asking for a friend...