PADI OW and BPW

[MichaelMc]

A bcd is not a pbd, it is natural it will not perform that role as good as pbd. Buoyancy devices have their own standards such as en1809.

I'm confused. Are you arguing that OW students should be using an ABLJ? Because unconscious ascents are so common (which they do not seem to be)?
Or that jackets seem closer to ABLJs, so should be used, as maybe being closer to self-righting?
Though it seems jackets do not actually self-right a (rare) unconscious body?
Scuba is tradeoffs. Some things have pros/cons underwater or on the surface or boat.

ETA: For those unfamiliar, ABLJ stands for Adjustable Buoyancy Life Jacket. They are roughly where BCs started historically. See: 3.1 Adjustable buoyancy life jacket.

 

[boulderjohn]

Rubbish. This is what I wrote:
“If you ascend unconscious from an EA, most likely an ABLJ least likely a back inflate or BP/W will support your head out of the water, thus, keeping you from drowning”
And this is what @boulderjohn wrote:
“A jacket BCD will not push you forward onto your face as fast as an overfilled back inflate model, but it is not going to put you on your back.”

A bcd is not a pbd, it is natural it will not perform that role as good as pbd. Buoyancy devices have their own standards such as en1809.

I would like to reconsider what I wrote before.

If you are ascending while unconscious, your limp body will be pulled up by the expanding air in the BCD, regardless of the type. That means that as you ascend, your limp body will having dangling legs, arms and head. You will thus already be in a face down position when you reach the surface.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Rubbish. This is what I wrote:
“If you ascend unconscious from an EA, most likely an ABLJ least likely a back inflate or BP/W will support your head out of the water, thus, keeping you from drowning”
And this is what @boulderjohn wrote:
“A jacket BCD will not push you forward onto your face as fast as an overfilled back inflate model, but it is not going to put you on your back.”

A bcd is not a pbd, it is natural it will not perform that role as good as pbd. Buoyancy devices have their own standards such as en1809.

no your argument is rubbish as people do not dive a PFD.

 

[scubaozy]

I'm confused. Are you arguing that OW students should be using an ABLJ? Because unconscious ascents are so common (which they do not seem to be)?
Or that jackets seem closer to ABLJs, so should be used, as maybe being closer to self-righting?
Though it seems jackets do not actually self-right a (rare) unconscious body?
Scuba is tradeoffs. Some things have pros/cons underwater or on the surface or boat.

Sorry, discussion is derailing, I should have stopped responding to comments that are not relevant. If I need to quote my self:

I would like to distance my self from equipment fundamentalism. Best to teach in the equipment the student is using. Best buoyancy equipment depends on the needs of the student or individual diver. Needs will change over time as well. I have a critical view on professionals advocating certain type of equipment as ultimate/best.

I advise OW students not to buy any sort of bcd until they have tried many types and their diving goals are settled. E.g. 25-50 dives.

 

[MichaelMc]

If I need to quote my self:

Yet in quoting yourself, you left out the first sentence of that initial post of yours, where you bring ABLJ into the OW student conversation in the context of an unconscious ascent:

If you ascend unconscious from an EA, most likely an ABLJ least likely a back inflate or BP/W will support your head out of the water, thus, keeping you from drowning.
I would like to distance my self from equipment fundamentalism. Best to teach in the equipment the student is using. Best buoyancy equipment depends on the needs of the student or individual diver. Needs will change over time as well. I have a critical view on professionals advocating certain type of equipment as ultimate/best.

 

[scubaozy]

I would like to reconsider what I wrote before.

If you are ascending while unconscious, your limp body will be pulled up by the expanding air in the BCD, regardless of the type. That means that as you ascend, your limp body will having dangling legs, arms and head. You will thus already be in a face down position when you reach the surface.

Have a look at this video -turn the audio off- :
I am aware that they are helped but as you can see they are not dangling about right away.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Yet in quoting yourself, you left out the first sentence of that initial post of yours, where you bring ABLJ into the OW student conversation in the context of an unconscious ascent:

Bingo.

Have a look at this video -turn the audio off- :
I am aware that they are helped but as you can see they are not dangling about right away.

Show a video of someone in scuba gear.

 

[boulderjohn]

Have a look at this video -turn the audio off- :
I am aware that they are helped but as you can see they are not dangling about right away.

Are you aware of the difference between a freediving ascent and one propelled by increasing buoyancy of a BCD pulling the diver upward?

How the inert body will look will depend upon the distribution of weight, etc. Divers with jacket BCD's and low weight belts will be more nearly vertical than those with better weight distribution, but nobody is going to surface on their backs.

 

[boulderjohn]

I did suggest earlier that you allow yourself to ascend the last few feet with the body hanging limp. I would bet everyone other than you understood that I meant you should continue to breathe and not kill yourself first. Of course, it would be a mistake to do that from too deep or too buoyant and thus have too rapid an ascent. I think everyone else would have understood that, as well.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I could make a video in sidemount, backmounted doubles, single tank bp/w, single tank jacket style BCD. As I weight myself/students to be trimmed, I already know what's going to happen. If I go limp and just hang there, my face will still be in the water. If I were unconscious and solo, I'd drown. It is pure logic.

It makes no sense to bring up equipment that no one learns to dive in for who knows how long. This whole thread is about BP/W in OW (versus jacket style BCDs).