padi open water card,18 metre limit questions and is advanced worth it or needed

[Buoyant1]

Here's the irony of the whole situation....

Experience doesn't mean squat as long as you have the "credentials" that state you are prepared to do advanced dives....It's unfortunate that there are people that have MUCH less experience than you may have, that are doing dives that are WAY over their heads, but they have the "credentials" to do those dives!

As someone that got his OW. and dived dived dived....THEN got the AOW card because certain places didn't let you dive past a certain depth unless you HAD the card, I can say that my "experience" prior to my AOW class was more beneficial than the actual AOW class.(I also dived with people that knew my competence, and frequently took me to depths that "exceeded" my "card experience") When I took the AOW course, it was pretty anti-climactic...in fact, the instructor that ran the course, KNEW my experience level, and had ME lead the deep portion of the dive (since I already did dives to that area of our local quarry)....

That all said...just suck it up, get the card, and be done with it! DO you want to be forced to either dive with a DM or miss dives that you should be doing? I thought not!

(but the post that someone said about trip insurance was a pretty good source of info...I never knew that!)

 

[DevonDiver]

Experience doesn't mean squat as long as you have the "credentials" that state you are prepared to do advanced dives....

In what way does an Advanced Open Water certification have any link with advanced dives, or diving?

It's an advancement of the Open Water course. Open Water is entry-level. AOW is an extension of entry-level, not advanced diving.

It's unfortunate that there are people that have MUCH less experience than you may have, that are doing dives that are WAY over their heads, but they have the "credentials" to do those dives!

It's hard to place a quantifiable 'benefit ratio' between the fast-track development that can be gained from effective tuition, compared to the slow-track development gained from learning from mistakes.

With a decent instructor, a training dive should provide more definitive development that a higher number of general dives that have no specific learning objectives, no external knowledge input and no development critique or feedback.

You can do 100 dives badly and gain no improvement... you can also do 5 focused training dives and make huge ability strides... or not...

As someone that got his OW. and dived dived dived....THEN got the AOW card because certain places didn't let you dive past a certain depth unless you HAD the card, I can say that my "experience" prior to my AOW class was more beneficial than the actual AOW class.(I also dived with people that knew my competence, and frequently took me to depths that "exceeded" my "card experience")

I don't quite understand this depth obsession with regards to AOW.

If someone takes the course for the wrong reasons (for a piece of plastic and a fictional depth rating), then they were probably overlooking what they could have gained from it. If they view the course as worthless, except for a fixation on getting a card to go deeper, then they probably didn't take the time to investigate what benefits could have been gained from the course, nor did they research and question potential instructors to ensure that their own personal objectives could have been obtained.

Instructors tend to try and satisfy your personal objectives. If your personal objectives do not stretch beyond "getting a card to satisfy dive centres so you can dive to 30m", then that is what they will give you. In contrast, if you intelligently reason a criteria of specific skill and knowledge development, then your instructor will have a starting-point from which to focus your training.

Personally, as an instructor, when I encounter a student with no motivation, no goals, no focus and no insight into their own requirements, I find it very hard to add any 'extra value' to their course. You want a bland course to get a new card... you got it....

Ask and you recieve...

When I took the AOW course, it was pretty anti-climactic..

Yep... what did you ask for?

That all said...just suck it up, get the card, and be done with it!

Great advice. Did you ever consider work as a motivational speaker... or a life coach?

DO you want to be forced to either dive with a DM or miss dives that you should be doing? I thought not!

If you had motivation, you'd be out diving as a buddy pair, with rented cylinders and not a DM in sight. Nobody gets 'forced' into anything. Dive operations may have set policies about certs/depths... but most of the talk about that is absolute myth. In 19 years, 4000+ dives in 16 different countries, I have only ever encountered a bare handful of centres that had absolute, strict policies on AOW beyond 18m.

Personally, given the amount of whinging about it, I'd hazard a guess that many people were just passing on 'scuba myths' as an excuse to have a poke at a course they didn't enjoy (because they didn't approach it in a positive, insightful manner).

 

[Max Speed]

If your goal is to own a card that certifies you to go deeper than OW why not take the SSI Deep Course.

One day, two dives focused on your goals. Certification to 130' not the 100' AOW waffle.

You won't have to bother with "Perfect Buoyancy" and "Navigation" dives that you probably practice on your own.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Actually a deep course should have very heavy emphasis on buoyancy control and navigation skills. Under tough conditions. 2 dives does not say much about a deep course. My idea for a deep course is a min of 6 dives with half of them between 100 and 130 feet. Classroom of at least 6 hours covering equipment, gas planning, use of redundant gas, decompression procedures, narcosis effects, buddy skills and communication and deep rescue techniques including an air share ascent from 100 feet min and raising an unconscious diver as well as dealing with a toxing one.
Anything less would be not worth my money or time.

 

[tr3a]

If you want the card go for it. As far as dive operators, I have never been asked for a log (which I do not bring anyway), and I have never been limited by whatever level of card I decide to show.

 

[k ellis]

hi all

im an open water card holder who regulary dives to about 20 metres, on occasion ive done dives to 30 metres but only for a few mintues because im always thinking in the back of my head that i shouldnt be this deep,,,

can anyone tell me what i will learn in an advanced open water course that will make it okay for me to dive to these depths safely, are there different skills involved or is the 18 metre limit with the ow card just there to get you to spend more money on the advanced course??

this is pretty much what ive been told by the place i dive with when im on holiday,,they say that diving is what gives me the stuff i need to be a good diver,,not an aow card!! do u agree>??

thanks everyone,,no flaming please

All of the above posters have good imput. Now this is only my opinion as follows:

Advance Open Water really does not make you any better or any worst diver then you were before you got the card. You can take the course with a fly by night instructor who only meets minimum standards and really learn that water does actually get deeper then 60 feet, Buoyancy can be improved, and that at least 3 other specialties are out there. Now some instructors do actually care about their students (Id venture to say well over 75 percent) and dont just give you a quick 5 dives and sign you off.

As with anything in life I highly recommend you go out and have fun diving and when your ready to learn a little more the Advanced Open Water will open your eyes to a broader image of the diving world. You will get to see through the book they use (Adventures in diving) an outline of each of a variety of specialties and they will intrigue you. When you finally sign up for AOW you will get to do the introduction dive to 5 of these specialties and get to have a great time with them from there.

Again as I have mentioned with any course no matter if its an open water or the Course director certification the value in a course is placed on how well you as a student are willing to learn along with the instructor and how much he really puts into his teaching.

 

[buleetu]

thank you to everyone that replied,, all really great advice and info,,the insurance thing has crossed my mind on a few occasions and this is a good reason for me to do the aow, because insurance companys dont like giving there profits away and if god forbid something happened i wouldnt fancy having to pay out up to 50 grand for treatment or possibly even more,,,

yesterday a man that i buddied up with once or twice on my trip logged his dive at 40 metres, it would have been cool to go and do that dive with him and have the skills nessary to plan it,,

to be honest anyone i tell that im padi certified kinda scoffs at me and someone said to me one day "ahh dont worry we will turn you into a real diver one day" so it would be a really good idea for me to do the ssi deep class like someone suggests,,it makes more sense for me to do something thats focused on learning the skills of deeper diving instead of wreck or night diving,, thank you for this advice poster,, for me i need to have some time to get used to diving deeper instead of going deep and being nervous because im there and checking my computer and air every 2 seconds hoping everythings gonna be fine,, at thistlegorm last week i got a 3 minute deco stop and didnt really know why i got it at the time,,i just went to the ceiling and stayed there until it cleared,,which im sure is the right thing to do but i would have been nice to know why i got deco and when im likely to get it again,,my ow teacher was a tosser and he didnt even tell me about tables,,he said its fine i have a computer,,,,

thanks again guys

 

[Simon-]

An AOW card/certifiction, still would not have have given you the green light to go to 40m.

to be honest anyone i tell that im padi certified kinda scoffs at me and someone said to me one day "ahh dont worry we will turn you into a real diver one day"

To be honest, I laugh at people who come out with crap like that. Such professionalism from them

so it would be a really good idea for meto do the ssi deep class like someone suggests

Why, it's only 2 dives as someone stated.

i got a 3 minute deco stop and didnt really know why i got it at the time,,i just went to the ceiling and stayed there until it cleared,,which im sure is the right thing to do but i would have been nice to know why i got deco and when im likely to get it again,,my ow teacher was a tosser and he didnt even tell me about tables,,he said its fine i have a computer,,,,

So, because you can't use your computer properly, or dive beyond your training/experience, he's the tosser?

 

[Simon-]

If your goal is to own a card that certifies you to go deeper than OW why not take the SSI Deep Course.

One day, two dives focused on your goals. Certification to 130' not the 100' AOW waffle.

You won't have to bother with "Perfect Buoyancy" and "Navigation" dives that you probably practice on your own.

AOW is generic, deep is specific. PADI Deep is to 40m not 30m btw

 

[Kevrumbo]

hi all

im an open water card holder who regulary dives to about 20 metres, on occasion ive done dives to 30 metres but only for a few mintues because im always thinking in the back of my head that i shouldnt be this deep,,,

can anyone tell me what i will learn in an advanced open water course that will make it okay for me to dive to these depths safely, are there different skills involved or is the 18 metre limit with the ow card just there to get you to spend more money on the advanced course??

this is pretty much what ive been told by the place i dive with when im on holiday,,they say that diving is what gives me the stuff i need to be a good diver,,not an aow card!! do u agree>??

thanks everyone,,no flaming please

Put even simpler and more graphic in metric terms: at 42m (5.2 ATA), a typical AOW diver will probably consume 100 bar of gas in a single 11 litre/bar tank (an AL80) --in ten minutes. A full AL80 tank is 207 bar, so at a depth of 42m in 10min, you're probably down over half a tank already.

Do you have enough gas supply to get yourself and an out-of-gas buddy back to the surface with a potentially mandatory deco stop on the ascent on half a AL80 tank???

Hopefully, a good AOW class will teach you about pre-dive gas planning and evaluating contingency scenarios like the above. . . (for starters see the attached file).