PADI/NAUI Issues with DIR Techniques?

[MXGratefulDiver]

The other thing an OW class will need is some decent written material.

I'd be happy to help them out there ... writing instructional material is what I do for a "day job" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

A corollary question to the original one, and a segue from the discussion of DIR-F and the average open water student . . . The more I read about DIR, the more intrigued and interested I am -- but primarily in the emphasis on perfecting buoyancy, trim, and skills, rather than the "orthodoxy" of equipment. I mean, I recently certified, have invested a rather substantial sum in the gear I have, and do not intend to jettison all of it and start over again in the near future (long term, who knows?) But it doesn't seem that there is any kind of a course available that teaches to a very high standard of skills WITHOUT requiring an equipment change. Or am I wrong? Or is the only option to hook up for private instruction from someone who is willing to teach DIR-type skills and look the other way about equipment?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

A corollary question to the original one, and a segue from the discussion of DIR-F and the average open water student . . . The more I read about DIR, the more intrigued and interested I am -- but primarily in the emphasis on perfecting buoyancy, trim, and skills, rather than the "orthodoxy" of equipment. I mean, I recently certified, have invested a rather substantial sum in the gear I have, and do not intend to jettison all of it and start over again in the near future (long term, who knows?) But it doesn't seem that there is any kind of a course available that teaches to a very high standard of skills WITHOUT requiring an equipment change. Or am I wrong? Or is the only option to hook up for private instruction from someone who is willing to teach DIR-type skills and look the other way about equipment?

There's no comparable course out there to DIR-F ... but in your case, there are other options ... we can discuss them next week when we dive together ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cornfed]

But it doesn't seem that there is any kind of a course available that teaches to a very high standard of skills WITHOUT requiring an equipment change. Or am I wrong?

You could borrow or rent the gear. Alternatively, there have been several reports of people (and I personally know one individual) who have taken DIR-F with gear that wasn't 100% DIR. It seems you can take the class with different gear with the only hard rules being, no split fins, no bungiee wings and you need a long hose. I'd suggest talking to an instructor before completely writing it off.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You could borrow or rent the gear.

That's one of the options I was referring to earlier ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Spratman]

I've been diving about a year now, and have read the flame wars between DIR/GUE and the rest of the world. I understand the "my way or the highway" or as I am much more used to "the right way, the wrong way and the Army way".

I hosted a college kid this past weekend from Boston, who was down at Dutch Springs for his fundies class. I didn't feel the need for the "tech training". However, someone on the board had a link to site in Fla, with MPEG's of the DIR-F class. I looked at those video clips and thought, Man, I wish I would have known about this class sooner! All the guys in my club have all taken the DIR-F class, and I'm planning on it next year, since I cannot afford it this year.

I've been diving nearly every weekend for the last two months trying to get my bouancy problem sorted out. The guy from Boston was really stoked the first night. He told me that they did one dive and spent all day in class and it was all equipment reconfigs and weighting. He dropped four pounds the first day! I wished I would have taken something like this to begin with, because they drill hard on the basics, bouancy control, equipment configs, and different types of fin techniques, of which, I am trying to learn now on my own.

Everyone told me, just dive and you'll get your bouancy down. But, they video tape everything in your DIR-F class and show you what you aren't doing correctly. That would be a great HELP!! Also, the fact that no one should come to the class freaked out about passing it. They should come looking to learn and the cert will eventually come. Too much emphasis on the c-card and not enough on learning.

Sorry for the rant. It's what happens when you don't investigate for yourself. While I don't think I'll adopt the DIR methodology, I do plan to take an intro to tech diving at some point. I'm not a caver, nor interested in wreck penetrations. But if it makes me a better diver, I'm all for it!

Jack

A corollary question to the original one, and a segue from the discussion of DIR-F and the average open water student . . . The more I read about DIR, the more intrigued and interested I am -- but primarily in the emphasis on perfecting buoyancy, trim, and skills, rather than the "orthodoxy" of equipment. I mean, I recently certified, have invested a rather substantial sum in the gear I have, and do not intend to jettison all of it and start over again in the near future (long term, who knows?) But it doesn't seem that there is any kind of a course available that teaches to a very high standard of skills WITHOUT requiring an equipment change. Or am I wrong? Or is the only option to hook up for private instruction from someone who is willing to teach DIR-type skills and look the other way about equipment?

 

[lord1234]

I was teh college student...I ended up dropping 10lbs...DIR-F is worthwhile, NAUI and PADI allow dir setups in their standards so there shouldn't be an issue...however I heard a story this weekend of two Instructor candidates(who were DIR-F certified as well), being told they had some of the worst bouyancy/trim that their PADIinstructor trainer had ever seen....

 

[Otter]

Yeah, I know what you're saying ... but I see it more as dreams than reality. The guys who are attempting it are more used to dealing with the highly motivated minority than they are the diving public at large ... and those are two very different target demographics.

As someone who works, week in and week out, with recreational students, I'm of the opinion that until the entire industry does an expectation reset, teaching DIR-F skills in OW won't work as a practical business model. It's simply too costly and time-consuming to appeal to a market that generally views it as an unnecessary commodity. That, I believe, is why after two years of talking about a GUE OW class, it still hasn't happened yet.

I'm out there nearly every week-end at our area's most popular teaching site. The shops with 20+ students ... week in and week out ... are the ones who offer the $100 self-study classes. Those, like the shop I work for, who offer a more expensive, more comprehensive class, typically have 2 or 3 students.

Yeah, I know all about the holistic system ... the real problem isn't the class concept, it's one of customer expectations. Try telling someone who knows nothing ... and cares even less ... about quality instruction why they should pay $400 for an OW class that spans multiple weeks when they can drive down the street to your competitor, pay $100, and be certified by next week-end. There's a reason for the current dismal state of OW instruction, and it's largely customer-driven.

No matter how you explain it to them, you'll get a very small minority who'll be interested in paying more, either in dollars or in time, for a quality education ... most simply want the C-card for as little time, effort, and money as possible.

I'm very interested in seeing how ... or if ... they manage to do it. Suffice it to say I'm skeptical ... and believe that the difficulties involved in competing against the "Walmart" approach to instruction is the reason it's been discussed for more than two years now without becoming a reality.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob,
I am afraid that you and I are in agreement as to the commerical viability of such an endeavor, however, for the smaller population that the current GUE instructors could support, it might work. The obvious issue is one of Marketing. How does the new student who is truly interested (assuming they know ahead of time) in diving at their best find GUE and one of their instructors (assuming there is going to be one in the area)? Of course marketing requires $$ and then you need scale in order to make it work.....

In another post, you had talked about the some of the curricula of the DIRF class ( sorry, too lazy to try and find it). I think you mentioned that the DIRF class went into more detail about lipid solubility and narcosis and other material that seemd 'a bit much' for the beginning diver...Do you think all of that material is appropriate for an entry level education?


Lastly, there has to be some alignment between equipment which is available worldwide (rental) and what is taught in the class. Some percent of the population will not want to buy their equipment and it seems that educating them on how to get the most of out what is available is better than just relying on them to make the conversion of BP/W to jacket on the fly.

Craig

 

[TSandM]

I think you mentioned that the DIRF class went into more detail about lipid solubility and narcosis and other material that seemd 'a bit much' for the beginning diver...Do you think all of that material is appropriate for an entry level education?

Does it depend on what kind of students you have? When I did my OW cert (PADI), at the end of the first week, I bought the Divemaster text because I was frustrated at the level at which information was being presented and I just wanted to know more. Some people just WANT to understand things at a deeper level, and I suspect these are precisely the sort of people who would seek out a GUE approach to OW certification in the first place.

 

[Otter]

Does it depend on what kind of students you have? When I did my OW cert (PADI), at the end of the first week, I bought the Divemaster text because I was frustrated at the level at which information was being presented and I just wanted to know more. Some people just WANT to understand things at a deeper level, and I suspect these are precisely the sort of people who would seek out a GUE approach to OW certification in the first place.

Agreed,,,,,that being said, O/W students like you are few and far between....and unfortunately, they won't know that they aren't getting the amount of information they want until after the class and therefore will be 'wishing' they knew about GUE ahead of time.

An alternative, which seems to be whats working now, is to have point the student towards additional materials (I am not sure I would start with the DM manual) and or other classes like the DIRF class.