Padi Instructor Gear swap?

[tursiops]

I had a DM student who was completely finished except for the equipment exchange and his mapping exercise. I was his buddy for the equipment exchange, and I told him he was the boss, I would just follow his lead. We settled to the bottom of the pool and began buddy breathing. Once he got settled and apparently comfortable he took off a fin and handed it to me; I took it and handed one of mine back. Things started to go downhill and he started breathing faster, then wanted to not give the reg back, then he just bolted to the surface and got out. I waited. A long time. Nothing. I finally got out and asked where he was. Folks explained he'd dressed and left, in a hurry. I literally never saw him again, and never showed up at the shop again.

I think the equipment exchange was successful; it weeded out someone who would have been a terrible DM. And saved me from having to make that decision and not certify him.

 

[MiloR]

I had a DM student who was completely finished except for the equipment exchange and his mapping exercise.......<snip>......I think the equipment exchange was successful; it weeded out someone who would have been a terrible DM. And saved me from having to make that decision and not certify him.

How did it get to the point that those 2 things were left to determine that the DM student was not meeting standards. With all of the Class time, cert revisits, skills presentations, etc I would think it would be clear already.

And to say that a failed equipment exchange is the the deciding factor on great/terrible DM seems odd to me also. You might be referring to the disappearance but I would attribute that to crippling embarrassment not poor SCUBA skills.

 

[tursiops]

How did it get to the point that those 2 things were left to determine that the DM student was not meeting standards. With all of the Class time, cert revisits, skills presentations, etc I would think it would be clear already.

And to say that a failed equipment exchange is the the deciding factor on great/terrible DM seems odd to me also. You might be referring to the disappearance but I would attribute that to crippling embarrassment not poor SCUBA skills.

Being a good DM requires a lot more than good scuba skills.

 

[mmerriman]

Here is what the training bulletin says with regard to the scoring.

Score Criteria

Please make these changes to the scoring criteria as follows:

3 Complete exchange occurred while neutrally buoyant. However, numerous challenges were encountered that delayed the speed and efficiency of the performance. This score is also appropriate for a diver overly dependent on another.

4 Task performed correctly with a relatively low anxiety level. Challenges encountered were easily and efficiently handled. Neither diver touched the bottom or the surface.

5 Task performed in a well thought-out, efficient and purposeful manner with no sign of problems; very low anxiety level. Looks routine, easy and neither diver touched the bottom or the surface.

I don’t see where is says you fail if you touch the bottom or the surface. What is says is you can only get 4 or 5 points if neither diver touches the bottom or the surface. 3 points says you do a complete exchange while neutrally buoyant. It does not say anything about neither diver touching the bottom or surface like for 4 or 5 points.

here's the whole excerpt - Note this point -
• Have candidates complete the exercise
in water too deep in which to stand,
instructing them to avoid touching the
bottom or breaking the surface.


In confined water, demonstrate the ability
to effectively respond to an unusual
circumstance underwater by exchanging all
scuba equipment (except exposure suits and
weight belts) with a buddy while neutrally
buoyant sharing a single regulator second
stage earning a minimum score of 3. During
the exchange, when divers switch scuba
kits, they should go to and breathe from their
buddy’s alternate air source, not the primary
second stage. Instead of exchanging masks,
divers remove and replace their own masks.
Conduct
• Orient candidates to procedures for
sharing a single regulator second stage,
including exhalation between breaths
and not covering the purge button as the
regulator is passed back and forth.
• Give buddy teams less than five minutes
to discuss the exercise.
• Have candidates begin sharing a single
regulator second stage in water too deep
in which to stand, exchange equipment
and continue sharing air until they reach
shallow water.
• Have candidates complete the exercise
in water too deep in which to stand,
instructing them to avoid touching the
bottom or breaking the surface.
• Do not assign problems — allow
candidates to resolve any naturally occurring
ones.
Score Criteria
Please make these changes to the scoring
criteria as follows:
3 Complete exchange occurred while
neutrally buoyant. However, numerous
challenges were encountered that
delayed the speed and efficiency of
the performance. This score is also
appropriate for a diver overly dependent
on another.
4 Task performed correctly with a relatively
low anxiety level. Challenges encountered
were easily and efficiently handled.
Neither diver touched the bottom or the
surface.
5 Task performed in a well thought-out,
efficient and purposeful manner with no
sign of problems; very low anxiety level.
Looks routine, easy and neither diver
touched the bottom or the surface.

 

[TMHeimer]

I asked a question on this in another thread, but didn't really get an answer.--
How does the instructor grade each individual on the swap when it involves two people doing it?
It used to be pass/fail and not part of the DM course stamina skills. The other 4 skills are done individually. Suppose your buddy really struggles? Can the instructor see this and give appropriate grades to each person? Possibly, I guess.
We aced the task back then. Later, I was asked to do it again with another DMC from another course, who was a lot smaller than me and struggled a lot. She passed since it was accomplished and was just on pass/fail basis. But I do wonder if my own mark would've been any different that time as opposed to the 5 that we each would've gotten (if it weren't just pass/fail) when I did it in my own course?

Something I didn't know was the task is now required to be done neutrally. Is this a new PADI standard? When I did it we were one the bottom. I know many instructors on SB will say it's just as easily done neutrally. I still find this hard to believe, but will never really know since I have no reason to try it.

I think one thing that caused us to ace the task in 2009 was that a lot was done while one of us had the reg in his mouth and the other exhaled bubbles very slowly. If you can "hold your breath" for about a minute you can get a lot done quickly without even worrying about switching the reg back to the other person. Not that it was a worry, just that it wasn't necessary after every little piece that was swapped.

 

[boulderjohn]

I do not have a whole lot of experience as the instructor on this skill because every DM training I did was as part of a team of instructors, each handling different parts of the instruction. Then my participation on these teams ended abruptly when the Director of Instruction for the shop insisted that we had to do the DM skill circuit training the way he had done it in his instructor training program in Roatan--firmly anchored to the floor on the knees. I said no thank you, and my work on DM instruction ended.

In all the cases in which I did participate, I never saw anyone have any problems worth noting, so I cannot give a valid response of what I would do; however, I think I would handle things the way I handle pretty much everything in scuba classes. I would not have a candidate do the exercise until I was sure he or she was ready to do it well.

That's the idea of the difference between summative and formative testing. In the classroom, a skilled teacher uses a variety of assessment techniques during the instructional process to see how the student is doing and then intervene appropriately when problems are observed. It might be as simply as carefully watching the student perform to note areas of difficulty. It could be a check quiz. It could be anything. That is formative assessment. The summative assessment is the one that counts, the one that gets scored. If the teacher and student have used the instructional process properly, the student should be fully prepared when it is time for the summative assessment. (Yes, that is a simplistic description.)

Scuba is a little different in that it uses mastery learning principles, which means students go through as many summative assessments as are needed until the student is deemed to be done. A student who struggles to clear a mask gets as much help and as many attempts as it takes to convince the instructor that the student can do it easily enough in real world diving. DM training is different from most in that there are requirements that have a summative feel to it, and the equipment exchange is one of them. Sure, a student who struggles with it can do it again (like mask clearing), but the exercise is a bit of a big event, so you don't want to do that. With my DM training, the CD conducting it made it something of a graduation exercise that we did after all other requirements had been met.

So if I were conducting a DM course and saw a DM candidate whom I believed would conceivably not get a passing score on that exercise, he or she would not do it until we had worked on overall diving skill to the point that I felt confident of a passing score.

 

[TMHeimer]

I do not have a whole lot of experience as the instructor on this skill because every DM training I did was as part of a team of instructors, each handling different parts of the instruction. Then my participation on these teams ended abruptly when the Director of Instruction for the shop insisted that we had to do the DM skill circuit training the way he had done it in his instructor training program in Roatan--firmly anchored to the floor on the knees. I said no thank you, and my work on DM instruction ended.

In all the cases in which I did participate, I never saw anyone have any problems worth noting, so I cannot give a valid response of what I would do; however, I think I would handle things the way I handle pretty much everything in scuba classes. I would not have a candidate do the exercise until I was sure he or she was ready to do it well.

That's the idea of the difference between summative and formative testing. In the classroom, a skilled teacher uses a variety of assessment techniques during the instructional process to see how the student is doing and then intervene appropriately when problems are observed. It might be as simply as carefully watching the student perform to note areas of difficulty. It could be a check quiz. It could be anything. That is formative assessment. The summative assessment is the one that counts, the one that gets scored. If the teacher and student have used the instructional process properly, the student should be fully prepared when it is time for the summative assessment. (Yes, that is a simplistic description.)

Scuba is a little different in that it uses mastery learning principles, which means students go through as many summative assessments as are needed until the student is deemed to be done. A student who struggles to clear a mask gets as much help and as many attempts as it takes to convince the instructor that the student can do it easily enough in real world diving. DM training is different from most in that there are requirements that have a summative feel to it, and the equipment exchange is one of them. Sure, a student who struggles with it can do it again (like mask clearing), but the exercise is a bit of a big event, so you don't want to do that. With my DM training, the CD conducting it made it something of a graduation exercise that we did after all other requirements had been met.

So if I were conducting a DM course and saw a DM candidate whom I believed would conceivably not get a passing score on that exercise, he or she would not do it until we had worked on overall diving skill to the point that I felt confident of a passing score.

I agree with all you say John. Not sure it really answers my question on exactly how an instructor would grade 2 people separately on a task that requires them to work as a team. In just throwing something out there, I wonder if having each DMC do the gear swap with the instructor would be better?-- that way any screwups would be credited to the DMC. The instructor would be the same buddy for each student. I'm sure there are faults with that idea since teamwork by 2 students is a part of this task. Perhaps that is why it was first graded pass/fail?

 

[tursiops]

I agree with all you say John. Not sure it really answers my question on exactly how an instructor would grade 2 people separately on a task that requires them to work as a team. In just throwing something out there, I wonder if having each DMC do the gear swap with the instructor would be better?-- that way any screwups would be credited to the DMC. The instructor would be the same buddy for each student. I'm sure there are faults with that idea since teamwork by 2 students is a part of this task. Perhaps that is why it was first graded pass/fail?

You are making this too hard. You presume it is difficult to watch two people working together and see if one is less proficient than the other. If one is leading and the other just following. If one is calm and smooth and the other is nervous and jerky. It is not hard.

 

[boulderjohn]

I wonder if having each DMC do the gear swap with the instructor would be better?-

I saw that. There were three people in my DM class. One of them and I did the gear swap, and the 3rd--by very, very far the weakest of the group--did it with the CD. The CD was very skilled, and he was very clearly able to compensate for and essentially eliminate all the deficiencies of his partner. My partner and I were, frankly, pissed.

 

[TMHeimer]

I saw that. There were three people in my DM class. One of them and I did the gear swap, and the 3rd--by very, very far the weakest of the group--did it with the CD. The CD was very skilled, and he was very clearly able to compensate for and essentially eliminate all the deficiencies of his partner. My partner and I were, frankly, pissed.

You are making this too hard. You presume it is difficult to watch two people working together and see if one is less proficient than the other. If one is leading and the other just following. If one is calm and smooth and the other is nervous and jerky. It is not hard.

Perhaps you are right. I was thinking that is exactly what the instructor must do. I suppose I could make a decent judgement on each of two clarinetists when they were playing a duet together. One may speed up and the other not. Still would be easier to judge them separately.