One of the stores here in town became a 6 diamond IDC recently. Whatever that means. Is the store in the NW burbs of Minneapolis by any chance?
JoelW
JoelW
PADI 5 Star Givin to only 10 Shops?
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MnLakeDiver
Contributor
there is another shop in the SW Cities that told a diver I met that Sherwood was out of Busniss to try to sell the brands they cary.
just don't let Minesota nice turn you Minesota Gulable.
just don't let Minesota nice turn you Minesota Gulable.
OP
MNScuba
Guest
I guess they said they received the PADI Certification of Recognition For Excellence Award only given out to 10 places worldwide, AND are ALSO a 5-Star dealer.
Chalk it up to a frozen brain (snowing here finally).
Sorry.
Chalk it up to a frozen brain (snowing here finally).
Sorry.
Fishkiller
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and my answer is the same PADI doesn't give out ONLY 10 awards it will give out as many awards as shops that meet the criteria they are selling you a line and should be avoided......
What is snow? natures way of adding depth to your local lake or quarry
First and foremost, you need to understand that PADI's 5 star rating is meaningless to you as a consumer. It is an advertising and marketing gimmick, something PADI excels at.
It is suggestive of such things as the Michelin ratings of restaurants where each star has an actual meaning related to the quality of food, and similar ratings on hotels and such. In that context, the PADI 5 star rating is a fraud perpetuated on the public. It has nothing to do with quality and excellence.
All it means is that any shop that is entitled to use it does not offer certifications through any other agencies and has not had any legitimate complaints filed against it for instruction.
They could be lousy instructors. As long as they don't get any complaints and only teach PADI courses, they can get a 5 star rating. Unlike the Michelin guide and others, PADI does not have 1,2,3, or 4 star facilities, which means it's not a rating but a gimmick, a deceptive fraudulent one at that.
It is suggestive of such things as the Michelin ratings of restaurants where each star has an actual meaning related to the quality of food, and similar ratings on hotels and such. In that context, the PADI 5 star rating is a fraud perpetuated on the public. It has nothing to do with quality and excellence.
All it means is that any shop that is entitled to use it does not offer certifications through any other agencies and has not had any legitimate complaints filed against it for instruction.
They could be lousy instructors. As long as they don't get any complaints and only teach PADI courses, they can get a 5 star rating. Unlike the Michelin guide and others, PADI does not have 1,2,3, or 4 star facilities, which means it's not a rating but a gimmick, a deceptive fraudulent one at that.
Really doesn't matter what, who, or how. I would consider that line of crap an insult to my intelligence and would take my business elsewhere. Either the store person who told you that was born yesterday or they think you were. Either way I wouldn't do business with them.
SaltyWhale
Contributor
Hi Vr
Not too sure what you have against PADI or maybe you are from a different agency.
I am not trying to defend PADI here but what they have come up with these ratings are to help consumers know where to go for what.
Being a PADI 5 star center, one have to meet certain criterias. No doubt sometime it does not mean much, but to be able to get a status of such they must have certain qualities. It's very much for reassuarances too.
You might call this a marketting gimmick or a fraud, but mind you they did contribute a lot to the industry. Also they played a big role in giving opportunities to those who never knew they could dive.
And by what definiations do you classify lousy instructors? If so...is it only PADI that has them...?
Btw Murdock325, could it be that the person who you spoke with is a salesperson rather than the dive team? Trust me, this confusion does happen to sales personels rather frequently. If it's from the dive team, then I would suggest you to go scout at some other LDS.
Not too sure what you have against PADI or maybe you are from a different agency.
I am not trying to defend PADI here but what they have come up with these ratings are to help consumers know where to go for what.
Being a PADI 5 star center, one have to meet certain criterias. No doubt sometime it does not mean much, but to be able to get a status of such they must have certain qualities. It's very much for reassuarances too.
You might call this a marketting gimmick or a fraud, but mind you they did contribute a lot to the industry. Also they played a big role in giving opportunities to those who never knew they could dive.
And by what definiations do you classify lousy instructors? If so...is it only PADI that has them...?
Btw Murdock325, could it be that the person who you spoke with is a salesperson rather than the dive team? Trust me, this confusion does happen to sales personels rather frequently. If it's from the dive team, then I would suggest you to go scout at some other LDS.
SaltyWhale,
I'm afraid you have been led down the primrose path. VR is correct, a 5 star rating from PADI is not actually a rating at all, it is a marketing ploy which dive stores pay for.
"Not too sure what you have against PADI"
Perhaps misleading consumers?
"they have come up with these ratings are to help consumers know where to go for what."
No arguments with that statement. They definately want consumers to go to shops which promise to only do business with PADI.
"Being a PADI 5 star center, one have to meet certain criterias. No doubt sometime it does not mean much,"
None of them have any meaning.
"but to be able to get a status of such they must have certain qualities."
"Quality" is irrelevant in determining which facilities get 5 stars.
"It's very much for reassuarances too."
It may serve that purpose, but if it does it misleads consumers.
"You might call this a marketting gimmick or a fraud, but mind you they did contribute a lot to the industry."
If I contribute "a lot to the industry" it's OK for me to commit fraud?
"Also they played a big role in giving opportunities to those who never knew they could dive."
What is your point?
"And by what definiations do you classify lousy instructors? If so...is it only PADI that has them...?"
This post is long enough without getting into that definition, but to answer the second part - No. They are found in all agencies - even mine.
PADI 5 Star Dive Center Prerequisites & Requirements With my comments in blue. Yes they are my opinions; accept or reject them as you please.
1. Have been a renewed PADI Dive Center for at least 12 months and have no verfied PADI Quality Assurance violations within that period and no open quality assurance inquires in progress.
This means you've been paying dues for at least a year and haven't been caught violating standards.
2. Continue to meet all PADI Dive Center prerequisites and membership requirements.
You can't fall below the standards we set for those to who we don't sell 5 stars.
3. Have been awarded all three Dive Center Recognition Awards including: 1) Education, You get this for churning out lots of students (quality doesn't count, only numbers. It is important to keep students returning for more classes). You also must give all your business to PADI. You must buy all the training materials PADI sells. You can't win this award if you've been caught violating standards. 2) Community Involvement You sponsor 2 events. One promotes diving, the other promotes diver safety. 3)Environment. You get this by displaying Project AWARE info, include environmental info in newsletters, sponsor a beach cleanup, install a mooring buoy or sponsor a project that generates information about the aquatic environment. Teach a course on Peak Performance Buoyancy (a BS course IMHO), U/W Naturalist, Project AWARE or Research Diver.
4. Distribute regular communications pieces designed to recruit & retain customers.
Advertise which will bring us more $.
5. Conduct at least one PADI Advanced O/W course, one PADI Rescue Dive course, one PADI DM or AI course and one PADI Specialty Diver course per year
Keep that $ coming.
6. Have issued at least 30% of total diver certifications for courses above the PADI O/W level.
We want $ to continue to come in from previous customers.
7. Display items promoting dive travel, and promote dive experiences through various activities.
8. Conduct nontraining related local dive tours and/or dive travel trips.
9. Exclusively issue and advertise only PADI certifications for recreational scuba diving courses.
We dont make any money when you issue cards from other agencies. We want all your business.
10. Not conduct, sponsor or advertise any non PADI recreational scuba instructor training programs.
See # 9.
11. Use the PADI system of diver education as designed, including all PADI manuals ..
You gotta buy all our stuff.
12. Ensure that all full-service dive operations in a multi-location operation are current PADI (various types of PADI facilities are listed)
We want dues from everybody you work with.
DSSW,
WWW
I'm afraid you have been led down the primrose path. VR is correct, a 5 star rating from PADI is not actually a rating at all, it is a marketing ploy which dive stores pay for.
"Not too sure what you have against PADI"
Perhaps misleading consumers?
"they have come up with these ratings are to help consumers know where to go for what."
No arguments with that statement. They definately want consumers to go to shops which promise to only do business with PADI.
"Being a PADI 5 star center, one have to meet certain criterias. No doubt sometime it does not mean much,"
None of them have any meaning.
"but to be able to get a status of such they must have certain qualities."
"Quality" is irrelevant in determining which facilities get 5 stars.
"It's very much for reassuarances too."
It may serve that purpose, but if it does it misleads consumers.
"You might call this a marketting gimmick or a fraud, but mind you they did contribute a lot to the industry."
If I contribute "a lot to the industry" it's OK for me to commit fraud?
"Also they played a big role in giving opportunities to those who never knew they could dive."
What is your point?
"And by what definiations do you classify lousy instructors? If so...is it only PADI that has them...?"
This post is long enough without getting into that definition, but to answer the second part - No. They are found in all agencies - even mine.
PADI 5 Star Dive Center Prerequisites & Requirements With my comments in blue. Yes they are my opinions; accept or reject them as you please.
1. Have been a renewed PADI Dive Center for at least 12 months and have no verfied PADI Quality Assurance violations within that period and no open quality assurance inquires in progress.
This means you've been paying dues for at least a year and haven't been caught violating standards.
2. Continue to meet all PADI Dive Center prerequisites and membership requirements.
You can't fall below the standards we set for those to who we don't sell 5 stars.
3. Have been awarded all three Dive Center Recognition Awards including: 1) Education, You get this for churning out lots of students (quality doesn't count, only numbers. It is important to keep students returning for more classes). You also must give all your business to PADI. You must buy all the training materials PADI sells. You can't win this award if you've been caught violating standards. 2) Community Involvement You sponsor 2 events. One promotes diving, the other promotes diver safety. 3)Environment. You get this by displaying Project AWARE info, include environmental info in newsletters, sponsor a beach cleanup, install a mooring buoy or sponsor a project that generates information about the aquatic environment. Teach a course on Peak Performance Buoyancy (a BS course IMHO), U/W Naturalist, Project AWARE or Research Diver.
4. Distribute regular communications pieces designed to recruit & retain customers.
Advertise which will bring us more $.
5. Conduct at least one PADI Advanced O/W course, one PADI Rescue Dive course, one PADI DM or AI course and one PADI Specialty Diver course per year
Keep that $ coming.
6. Have issued at least 30% of total diver certifications for courses above the PADI O/W level.
We want $ to continue to come in from previous customers.
7. Display items promoting dive travel, and promote dive experiences through various activities.
8. Conduct nontraining related local dive tours and/or dive travel trips.
9. Exclusively issue and advertise only PADI certifications for recreational scuba diving courses.
We dont make any money when you issue cards from other agencies. We want all your business.
10. Not conduct, sponsor or advertise any non PADI recreational scuba instructor training programs.
See # 9.
11. Use the PADI system of diver education as designed, including all PADI manuals ..
You gotta buy all our stuff.
12. Ensure that all full-service dive operations in a multi-location operation are current PADI (various types of PADI facilities are listed)
We want dues from everybody you work with.
DSSW,
WWW
Walter,
You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but I think you understate the requirements for PADI 5 star status.
In the U.S. (and particularly in dive destination areas such as Florida) I too believe it makes little difference. The difference between a 5 Star Dive Center and an PADI Dive Center may be marginal. You are right that the difference there largely relies upon how much business the shop provides to PADI.
But an often overlooked requirement for 5 Star status is that the shop must also meet requirements for being a Padi Dive Center to begin with. In areas where diving is not particularly concentrated, those standards do mean something.
There is a list of 30 requirements in the PADI Instructor Manual in order for a shop to be a PADI Dive Center. We may view these requirements as the minimum necessary for a dive shop to be competent, but those standards are not met by hundreds of dive centers.
Ever been diving through a dive center that didn't have a first aid and oxygen kit along on all outings? Requirement #4 Heard horror stories of students being ripped off when the instructor wasn't really PADI certified? Requirement #7 & 10 Do you want to be sure that a dive center can provide manufacturer authorized repair and service for all dive equipment sold in the store? Requirement #17 Ever been diving out of the US where there aren't standards for compressed gas testing? Requirement #20 Ever known a new diver who wanted to be sure a divemaster or instructor would be on an outing to help supervise? Requirement #24 Would you like a dive briefing that includes more than someone pointing and saying, "The reef is over there?" Requirement #27
Those are some of the requirements to be a PADI Dive Center. To be a PADI 5 Star Dive Center, the shop must do all of the above, in addition to:
That may not seem like much, but my LDS could only dream of that much business. As a new instructor, I would love to have my first year be that busy, but it won't happen.
A 5 Star Dive Center must be a busy dive shop that is consistently teaching divers according to standards. To meet the requirements of a 5 Star Center, the shop must have instructors with enough experience to be able to teach multiple specialty courses, and the shop must maintain enough customer satisfaction to have people come back for those continuing education courses.
That doesn't mean that other shops do not offer quality instruction, but it indicates that the 5 Star Center is probably doing something right.
A quick search of PADI's web site indicates that only 4 out of 20 PADI Dive Centers in the Bahamas are 5 Star (or Gold Palm 5 Star) Resorts. And only 2 out of 17 PADI Dive Centers in Belize meet the 5 Star (or Gold Palm 5 Star) Resort standard. In Bonaire, it's 9 out of 11; 11 out of 31 in the Cayman Islands. And in my home state of South Carolina, it is 3 out of 10.
Not everyone who wants a 5 Star Rating gets one.
Off :box: now.
You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but I think you understate the requirements for PADI 5 star status.
In the U.S. (and particularly in dive destination areas such as Florida) I too believe it makes little difference. The difference between a 5 Star Dive Center and an PADI Dive Center may be marginal. You are right that the difference there largely relies upon how much business the shop provides to PADI.
But an often overlooked requirement for 5 Star status is that the shop must also meet requirements for being a Padi Dive Center to begin with. In areas where diving is not particularly concentrated, those standards do mean something.
There is a list of 30 requirements in the PADI Instructor Manual in order for a shop to be a PADI Dive Center. We may view these requirements as the minimum necessary for a dive shop to be competent, but those standards are not met by hundreds of dive centers.
Ever been diving through a dive center that didn't have a first aid and oxygen kit along on all outings? Requirement #4 Heard horror stories of students being ripped off when the instructor wasn't really PADI certified? Requirement #7 & 10 Do you want to be sure that a dive center can provide manufacturer authorized repair and service for all dive equipment sold in the store? Requirement #17 Ever been diving out of the US where there aren't standards for compressed gas testing? Requirement #20 Ever known a new diver who wanted to be sure a divemaster or instructor would be on an outing to help supervise? Requirement #24 Would you like a dive briefing that includes more than someone pointing and saying, "The reef is over there?" Requirement #27
Those are some of the requirements to be a PADI Dive Center. To be a PADI 5 Star Dive Center, the shop must do all of the above, in addition to:
- Issuing at least 150 PADI certifications in the previous year, including at least: 50 AOW, 15 Specialty certifications in at least 5 different areas, 5 Rescue Diver, and 5 DM or AI
- Having certified all of those divers and operated all of your trips with zero confirmed quality assurance violations.
That may not seem like much, but my LDS could only dream of that much business. As a new instructor, I would love to have my first year be that busy, but it won't happen.
A 5 Star Dive Center must be a busy dive shop that is consistently teaching divers according to standards. To meet the requirements of a 5 Star Center, the shop must have instructors with enough experience to be able to teach multiple specialty courses, and the shop must maintain enough customer satisfaction to have people come back for those continuing education courses.
That doesn't mean that other shops do not offer quality instruction, but it indicates that the 5 Star Center is probably doing something right.
A quick search of PADI's web site indicates that only 4 out of 20 PADI Dive Centers in the Bahamas are 5 Star (or Gold Palm 5 Star) Resorts. And only 2 out of 17 PADI Dive Centers in Belize meet the 5 Star (or Gold Palm 5 Star) Resort standard. In Bonaire, it's 9 out of 11; 11 out of 31 in the Cayman Islands. And in my home state of South Carolina, it is 3 out of 10.
Not everyone who wants a 5 Star Rating gets one.
Off :box: now.
And not every shop that doesn't have one wants one. At least one of the reasons soinme of those PADI dive centers aren't 5 star is that they offer certifications from other agencies. Once again, it shows how the 5 star symbol is a fraudulent marketing ploy, as if shops with it were somehow better than shops without it.
I have no coonection to any shop or agency. I just know the difference between benefits and bull droppings.
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