Pace of Cave Diving Instructional Progress

[ISE]

Just because something is a good idea, doesn't mean it a good idea to force it upon others.

---------- Post added May 16th, 2012 at 04:39 PM ----------

So which is it? Educate or shut up and dive?

I would be happy if you would pick either.

 

[diverdoug1]

Making a physical exam a safety guideline does not force it upon anyone. The rule of thirds is not forced upon anyone. Maintenance of equipment is not forced upon anyone. They are rules / safety guidelines,but they are not forced on anyone (with the exception of students). I know of three GUE divers who smoke like chimneys, it still is a good guideline that they don't smoke.

 

[TSandM]

I won't argue against a yearly physical being a good idea, especially past the age of 40 or so. It IS a good idea. I'm just saying it may not reduce the number of cardiac diving deaths by very much.

 

[diverdoug1]

While this may be true, many of the rules we hold dear may not decrease morbidity or mortality very much when looked at alone (in fact in your trip report you describe your practice of never lingering on the way out of a cave, a practice I agree with but the other divers had not heard of). But when we look at the sum effect of following all of our safety guidelines, it has a significant positive influence on our safety.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I don't mind being "ignorant" to the guidelines, since a ton of recent deaths haven't fallen under them. Sheck got to do his own accident analysis for himself, and I reserve that same right, since it's my life on the line.

Leaving a rule outdated to "honor" someone is a rather odd idea. Why don't we just update the rule, if that's what it mean? I for one, consider leaving training standards outdated incredibly disrespectful to those who established them in an effort to make everyone safe. Just like I don't think Buhlmann is being disrespected when VPM-B was developed, I don't think those two are being disrespected by furthering their research...

You completely missed my point. The rule hasn't been left outdated. It has been updated to include equipment not just lights. The original guidelines included lights and we all learn TGADL as the guidelines so they remain that way with clarifications. Either you missed that in class or it wasn't covered, but this is how it currently stands, at least according to all the instructors I interned with.

The fact health hasn't cracked the top 5 yet and accounts for the majority of diving accidents these days speaks volumes. If I were to redo them (for trained cave divers), I think I would go with the following. Admittedly it's difficult to order them because you have to decide do you go off how often the rule is broken, how often it results in a death, or how likely it is to be broken and result in a death (IE if it's broken 10,000 times and has 10 fatalities it would be #1 for how many deaths, but still low likely hood).

1. Diving without a recent medical (IE undiagnosed health issues)
2. Violation of training guidelines
3. Failure to maintain sufficient breathing gas reserves for the dive
4. Solo Diving
5. Diving > 100ft END
6. Failure to maintain a continuous guideline to the surface.
7. Improper gear for the dive

I agree that health should be on the list. I don't think we necessarily need to order it by order of occurrence. Many deaths occur due to the violation of more than one guideline. It's difficult to pin it down on just one.

This is a bogus request, which you're well aware. Prove to me that drunk driving causes accidents, you can't. It's always a missed turn or running a red light or following too close.

You're presenting a non-sequitur argument. It's quite easy to prove that drunk driving causes accidents. Being drunk means physical and mental impairment. Several studies have been done to prove this. Reaction time is slowed and judgment is affected. Both physical and mental capacities are deteriorated by alcohol consumption. Very easy to prove. And this incapacitation is what leads to missing a turn or running a red light or following too close. You cannot find anything similar in solo diving, though.