Pace of Cave Diving Instructional Progress

[ISE]

People can save their buddy, read that account.

Reread my post. If you can get out and pull your buddies body out, do it. For every one buddy rescue you show me, I can should you 10 double fatalities.

 

[JamesK]

While I am not a physician, I have played Doctor many times in my life. Yearly physicals are a great idea IMO. Mandatory, no. Voluntarily, yes. I feel everyone should make sure they are physically and mentally fit. However, it goes farther then just checking in with your doc, you have to do things to maintain your own conditioning. Get off the couch, eat somewhat healthy, and avoid the drinking all night crap. Simple.

 

[PfcAJ]

And I challenge you to find one example of where both divers died because one tried to get the other out.

 

[diverdoug1]

Diverdoug, I agree with you that some problems would be picked up by a single physical examination, if such were required to dive. Undiagnosed hypertension, diabetes, or ASDs could be picked up that way. I'm just trying to say that, if coronary artery disease is a big cause of death in divers, a yearly physical isn't going to pick up a lot of the people at risk. Although some, in retrospect, were having symptoms (and we might catch those) the rest were not -- and again, a physical exam and even resting EKG are not going to pick up a lot of those people. Shoot, I had a guy in my ER the other day who came in complaining of a little chest tightness on exertion -- not enough to keep him from golfing, just enough to make him sit down to rest a bit more often than usual. He had a stone cold normal EKG, and according to the cardiologist who cathed him, the worst three-vessel disease she had seen in 20 years of practice.

It would take some kind of a study, I think, to decide whether a yearly or bi-yearly physical alone would catch any folks who were headed for a cardiac event in the water.

Unfortunately, the onset of many disease processes is insidious, and the exam of a patient today can be vastly different a few years down the road. Just because the patient is good to go now does not mean that they will be a year or two from now. A routine physical exam is warranted in ANY human being weather they dive or not. Including this in safety guidelines makes every bit as much sense as GUE requiring that it's participants don't smoke.

To address your example of your golfing ER patient, Had he gone to see his PMD recently and given the same story, he might not have wound up in your ER. It is too bad that so many patients treat the ER physician as the PMD. It is my belief that a routine yearly physical will help keep divers out of my chamber, patients out of your ER, and provide older customers to the mortician.

 

[ucfdiver]

Otherwise, shut up and dive.

You know, I tried this once and couldn't dive at Jackson Blue, because someone's body was being drug out because they made a stupid decision. I've had to see a close friend's emotions spike after he handled a body recovery at Ginnie. Deaths as far back as Apopka Blue 20+ years ago still cause us not to have access today. Diving deaths affect more than just those who die, stop being an Ostrich with your head in the sand.

 

[boulderjohn]

Reread my post. If you can get out and pull your buddies body out, do it. For every one buddy rescue you show me, I can should you 10 double fatalities.

The problem with this is the availability of statistics. When a diver is saved by a buddy, it is rarely reported, and there is no database storing that information. We can't even guess how often it has happened. On the other hand, we know every fatality, single or double.

 

[ISE]

And I challenge you to find one example of where both divers died because one tried to get the other out.

Since anyone with first hand knowledge is dead, that may be difficult. I will happily drag a buddy with a medical event as far as possible. I will not needlessly add to a body count.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

ISE, what's your real name so I can be sure never to dive with you?

Aquanaut Mailing List Archive Service

People can save their buddy, read that account.

I think he has to be a troll. Never seen a cave diver post that many bad posts ever!!

 

[ISE]

You know, I tried this once and couldn't dive at Jackson Blue, because someone's body was being drug out because they made a stupid decision. I've had to see a close friend's emotions spike after he handled a body recovery at Ginnie. Deaths as far back as Apopka Blue 20+ years ago still cause us not to have access today. Diving deaths affect more than just those who die, stop being an Ostrich with your head in the sand.

Someone's dead body caused you the inconvenience of missing a dive? Sorry about that. We all have to own the consequences of our actions. I bet the dead guy is a lot more sorry than you are. The only solution is education. Anything else will end like the Jenny Ballroom or Morrison.

 

[ucfdiver]

Who are any of us to tell anyone else they need a physical before diving a cave? Don't dive with someone who doesn't meet your requirements. Don't certify someone who isn't up to your standards. Otherwise, shut up and dive.

Someone's dead body caused you the inconvenience of missing a dive? Sorry about that. We all have to own the consequences of our actions. I bet the dead guy is a lot more sorry than you are. The only solution is education. Anything else will end like the Jenny Ballroom or Morrison.

So which is it? Educate or shut up and dive?