OW Diver time requirements

[TimA]

I always thought that each and every certified PADI diver was required to measure their own time underwater along with their depth. Now I have been told its OK to skip a step in the 5 point descent and rely on the instrument of someone else. I feel bad because of my ignorance in this matter. Is this a loophole? Are other certification agencies similar in their requirements?
Can someone shed some light on this for me?

Thanks
TimA

 

[katdiver]

I still do it the old fashioned way, give the diver a watch and get him to set it going down and check it at ascent time, monitor depth gauge etc. 5 point descent/ascent is still a skill to teach.

 

[TimA]

I probably should have posted this in another part of the forums.
Thanks for that Katdiver..
Although I am OW instructor I have never taught so I am not up on the regs.
Now I just guide at Richelieu, Surin, Tachai and sometimes Burma.
Very recently while diving Richelieu I had 2 OW divers on their 6th dive.
Not knowing how they would dive I took them separate from the other divers (experienced divers there to see Richelieu)
Only after these 2 complained incessantly to the staff about everything from not having enuf weight to having a foggy mask, I reminded them that (as certified divers) they were required to calculate their own time U/W and use the tables. (neither one even had a watch). It was then I was informed by a newly ordained instructor that they were not required to calculate their own time U/W. That they could rely on my time. I guess I am surprised to find this out in this way. They gloated and I hung my head in shame. The customer is always right.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

That is absolute crap. You are Never to rely on your buddy's watch, gauges, or computer. That newly ordained instructor is wrong, and should not have been teaching if that's what he was telling people. That is completely against standards of ANY agency. You should not hang your head. They were idiots.

 

[apertyx]

Hold your head high - each diver is responsible for their own EVERYTHING! What would have happened if they'd been separated from you, or the "instructor" (who appears to have BOUGHT his ticket, and perhaps bought their c-cards)? These two obviously were not prepared to dive that day, or ANY day, based on the amount of complaining you quote.

 

[limbo]

The 5 point descent is still part of the PADI curriculum, I can't speak for other agencies.

If that newly ordained instructor was a PADI instructor, he was talking nonsense! Each diver is indeed responsible for his own 'time keeping ' under water.

 

[lord khram]

In my mind you were exactly correct. If a diver is a certified open water diver he can by rights go off with a buddy on their own and dive without a guide. So yes they should be tought all skills fully and be profficient at them before being certified.
Also I feel that all divers should have their own instruments and not be relying on others.
But I am afraid all to often when training is done for financial gain, corners are cut by some unscrupolous individuals, indeed as you have highlighted here this in turn can produce incorrectly trained divers and poor instructors.

 

[limbo]

Spot on LK.

 

[h90]

I probably should have posted this in another part of the forums.
Thanks for that Katdiver..
Although I am OW instructor I have never taught so I am not up on the regs.
Now I just guide at Richelieu, Surin, Tachai and sometimes Burma.
Very recently while diving Richelieu I had 2 OW divers on their 6th dive.
Not knowing how they would dive I took them separate from the other divers (experienced divers there to see Richelieu)
Only after these 2 complained incessantly to the staff about everything from not having enuf weight to having a foggy mask, I reminded them that (as certified divers) they were required to calculate their own time U/W and use the tables. (neither one even had a watch). It was then I was informed by a newly ordained instructor that they were not required to calculate their own time U/W. That they could rely on my time. I guess I am surprised to find this out in this way. They gloated and I hung my head in shame. The customer is always right.

All my dives so far in Pattaya:
A DM as guide...the diver don't have computer or watch....The guide brings them around...On the wrack (forgot the name) it is a bit over 30 meter and I made already a short deco there.....

All dives in Chumphon:
The same but it is not deep, so no danger....

Dives Surin+Lipe+Richelieu: I only did daytrips and the majority didn't have any experience (I dive 1 time per year, etc).

So it is normal in Thailand, usually the dive-master is diving with such customers on the safe side.....so I never heard about a problem.

 

[TimA]

So it is normal in Thailand, usually the dive-master is diving with such customers on the safe side.....so I never heard about a problem.

I feel very encouraged by the responses here and I agree with the above quote but the plot thickens. This instructor actually called his IDC trainer on Ko Tao who verified that it was OK for them (certified divers) to dive relying on a DM's timepiece. I telephoned my dive guru in Phuket who said it was OK as long as 1 of the buddies had a timepiece.
To make it even more interesting the instructor's D6 flooded with water and he made 2 dives the next day (w/ these same OW divers) none of which had a timepiece. Maybe it has just become so commonplace that we have forgotten the actual requirement and have interpreted it for our own benefit. Anyways my embarrassment is relinquished by the responses here. Thanks for that.
Cheers