OW Confined dive concerns/questions

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There is no minimum amount of time for confined water, but large groups always take longer than small ones. While I have had a few students complete all skills in a single session of 4 hours or less, I have never done this with a group larger than 2. The average class of 6 gets two four hour sessions. While 10 students to 1 instructor without an assistant is the absolute maximum allowed by (PADI) standards, I like to have an assistant for any group larger than 4.

I own a Dive shop now, so I am not doing as much in water teaching as I used to, but I am now managing more classes, and before any of my students go to open water they require 3 "ready" decisions 1 from the instructor 1 from the student and 1 from me. If anyone thinks the student is not ready for OW they get more pool time until everyone says ready.
 
I have completed my 4 OW confined dives. Question 1 should all 4 confined dives been crammed into one day (10am-2pm)?
In the PADI OW course, there are technically five Confined Water dives, rather than four. The skills in dive Five are Remove/Replace SCUBA Unit underwater and at the surface, and Remove/Replace the weight system underwater. I presume you covered those.
and is a class size of 10 too large for 1 instructor?
Not necessarily. It is compatible with PADI standards, probably with other training agencies as well. Whether it is too large depends on the students, the instructor and the environment, among other things.
I have passed my skills for the 4 confined dives but am not totally comfortable with all of them. (I had trouble with the alternate breathing source, put in in upside down the first time.) Also should I say something to the owner about my concerns?
YES. Most definitely. But, you should address your concerns with the Instructor first.
We got in the pool, and after we all checked out with the 100 yd swim. immediately put on bc's and within a few minutes were checking out on skills- demonstrated one or twicew by instructor and then tested one at a time immediately after with no practice- is this normal??
Yes. The idea is to get students in the water as soon as possible, working on the very skills that are required for completion of the course.
also in the classroom portion of the course we rushed through (right before the quizzes and final the instructor went through the quiz book and pretty much gave us the answers (While I knew them already, I was a little concerned about this practice)- is this the usual for PADI certification classes.
This is a more difficult question to address. When you say 'rushed through', how much time was actually spent in the classroom? Did the instructor go over the actual examination questions in advance, or did he/she cover the Knowledge Reviews, and the questions on the Quick Quizzes? There is considerable overlap. Did the Instructor spend time going over questions that others in the class missed, to assure understanding? In the past, some instructors have spent more time than was perhaps necessary in the classroom, rather than getting students in the water to actually dive. Many of us believe that we have a vast body of wisdom to share with / impart to OW students. But, there are some who would suggest that our enthusiasm for lecturing exceeds the students' enthusiasm for being lectured to - often by a factor of 10.
any feed back would be appreciated- I want to know if i should take the class again elsewhere, report the school or if i am just being nervina.
None of the above, necessarily. First, you have paid for the course (I presume), so I would start with the Instructor. Indicate your level of discomfort and ask for more pool/confined water time to go over the skills. PADI uses the term 'mastery' in defining the target level of student peformance, and you are well within your rights to indicate to the Instructor that you are uncomfortable with your level of mastery at this point. Second, if you do not get a satisfactory response from the Instructor, then you should approach the shop owner with the same concerns. Take these steps first before going elsewhere, or reporting the shop/instructor to PADI QA, etc.

Having said all this, I will add that I have not yet seen a set of circumstances that would allow me, as a solo instructor without a Certified Assistant in the water with me, to complete the performance requirements for all 5 Confined Water dives, for 10 students, in one 4 hour pool session. I will not say it is impossible, only that I have not personally seen it. We ordinarily allocate a total of 16 hours of pool time to the OW course. Perhaps, with 10 very motivated, thoroughly prepared students, and an extraordinarily effective and efficient instructor, it is possible to achieve student proficiency in only four hours of Confined Water training. There are always two or more points of view in a case like this, and we only have yours. But, you have described a hurried approach to didactic and Confined Water training that would probably make more than a few instructors cringe.
scubanatic:
I am surprised that you did 4 OW cert dives in one day. WRSTC states no more than 3 open water certification dives may be done in a 24 hours period. Why were you rsuhed through the course?
While you are absolutely correct about the OW cert dives, I believe the OP was referring to her CONFINED WATER training.
 
I wonder if it will be one instructor and 10 students in the open water sessions?

Richard
 
My wife and I just took the PADI Open Water Diver course. Just the 2 of us with one very good instructor.

We had 4 open water dives (over a 3 day period) and followed that up with 8 more in the week following the course. We both got more comfortable with each dive....and enjoyed every minute of the experience.
 
My concern here is when did they lower the swim standard to 100 yards? And 4 confined in one day. How many hours for each one? 10 students to 1 instructor is within standards but why would anyone do it? All you need is one student with issues to upset the whole thing. To me this is one of the big reasons I left PADI. That they let shops/instructors get away with this kind of stuff. I'd also be concerned that the instructor did not know you were not fully comfortable with all of this. Did he/she even ask if everyone was ok? Common sense would dictate this being done. How many times did you do the mask and regulator drills? did you do them while maintaining neutral buoyancy? How did you accomplish the share air swim with all 10 getting the chance to be the donor or receiver? No one had trouble with the gear removal and replacement underwater? Possible, yes, but I've assisted with or certed in excess of 100 people and in OW classes there's a chance that 1 out of 4 or 5 had a minor one where I or the other instructor had them repeat it to be sure they had it down. How much time did you spend on proper weighting and buoyancy control?

If what you are saying is what happened there is at least one standards violaton(100 yd swim) and based on your level of discomfort and concern I would not have spent more than 25 bucks for this class if I did not cancel the credit card payment altogether! You got pretty much enough info and training to hurt or kill yourself. And this is not typical of class in my area PADI or otherwise. You got your money taken. How much of all of this will you retain if you don't do your dives for a month or two? And would you let one of your loved ones dive with you with the same training? Just the two of you, no DM , no Instructor, just you two? If you would not be comfortable with that you did not get a proper class.
 
I have completed my 4 OW confined dives. Question 1 should all 4 confined dives been crammed into one day (10am-2pm)? and is a class size of 10 too large for 1 instructor?

I have passed my skills for the 4 confined dives but am not totally comfortable with all of them. (I had trouble with the alternate breathing source, put in in upside down the first time.)

I would always recommend that anyone interested in taking up diving speak to the Dive Centre they are proposing to use for their OW course and talk to them about how the course schedule fits together, student to staff ratios etc.

In addition, check out what the policy is for having some extra pool sessions. Some dive centres may be happy to let you have some additional time with an instructor for free.

Good luck with the next stage of your diver training Debbie. And remember - if you're not happy with the level of professionalism or tuition provided by the dive centre for the OW course then you don't have to go back to them for the Advanced. Shop around and try and get a recommendation from other divers.
 
My concern here is when did they lower the swim standard to 100 yards?

My mistake we swam 200 yards no mask snorkel or fins. (my partner who took the course with me corrected me on this)
 
I am an inexperienced diver. However, it is important that you learn and are comfortable with the basic skills. Anxiety/panic can lead to bad decisions. I would let the instructor know of your discomfort. It is important to get feedback from students and I'm sure your instructor can come up with a solution.

Always be aware of your strengths and weaknesses. I bunjee jumped off a bridge once. Almost had a heart attack..LOL...found out that I didn't need to do that again. Too much anxiety!!! The entire idea is to enjoy our hobbies. Take your time, be comfortable underwater, and enjoy the outrageous scenery.
 
.Deb let me say I am sorry for your experience. The bottom line is that you are attempting to learn a life sustaining skill. that being said what gives me pause is that with 10 students and a 10 to 2 class that is only 4 hr long divide that by 10 thatÃÔ 24 min per student so the question is are you willing to accept this. Communication with the instructor is key. (He must listen to you) please request another session and you move to Openwater when you are ready. I teach the 3 c's control, competence, confidence and this only comes with time on task
 
I have completed my 4 OW confined dives. Question 1 should all 4 confined dives been crammed into one day (10am-2pm)? and is a class size of 10 too large for 1 instructor?

I have passed my skills for the 4 confined dives but am not totally comfortable with all of them. (I had trouble with the alternate breathing source, put in in upside down the first time.)

Also should I say something to the owner about my concerns? We got in the pool, and after we all checked out with the 100 yd swim. immediately put on bc's and within a few minutes were checking out on skills- demonstrated one or twicew by instructor and then tested one at a time immediately after with no practice- is this normal??

also in the classroom portion of the course we rushed through (right before the quizzes and final the instructor went through the quiz book and pretty much gave us the answers (While I knew them already, I was a little concerned about this practice)- is this the usual for PADI certification classes.

any feed back would be appreciated- I want to know if i should take the class again elsewhere, report the school or if i am just being nervina.


Debbie
0 logged dives
Its a 200 yds swim and a 10 min float/tread water-all to give the instructor an idea of your watermanship.
there are 5 confined water modules in a PADI ow course.not dives.though each one should start and end by setting up gear/putting it on/removing gear/breaking it down. At the end of each module there should be time for the students to pratice on their skills or for a slow student to work with the instructor to "get it"..Course is performance based,not time based,so there is no time frame in standards.If a student can do a skill in 10 minutes good/if it takes 30 minutes,just as well.Do not be confused by thinking a course is only good if it takes 100 hr..it should not.Very rarely a course should be more than 18/20 hrs with a good instructor leading it.Longer than 20 hrs either the person is a marginal swimmer(should get swim lessons before taking scuba course) or the instructor is not very organized...That said I wonder how an instructor can do 10 people in what I assume to be perhaps a 4 hr pool session.I can see 1,2 or even 3 motivated students with excellent water skills doing this but 10..no way..The instructor should have at a minimum gone over the knowledge reviews and then administer a quiz.-then gone over it's results with students.thats standards.I do a presentation/kr's/quiz for each module,in that order.
 
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