Oversight of Dive shops by Dive Agencies (PADI, NAUI, etc.)

[MikeFerrara]

I would be shot I have the utmost respect for the person responsible for developing the class the way it works. She is my instructor and the LDS owner. I owe her a debt of gratitude I can never repay. She gives her life to diving and teaching new divers...And she takes absolutely no bull hockey when it comes to doing things the right way for students...Yeah...I would be shot
BTW, Thanks for the kudos...We do cover all of the standards...but I guess we violate them too...Her shop number is 224...PADI isn't going to say a thing.

Of course PADI isn't going to say anything. Why should they? It's you paying them remember? You should be saying something to PADI.

Guess what though...if there was ever any legal action and it came out that standards were being violated both PADI and the insurance company will throw you to the wolves. PADI is safe...the risk is yours...and you're paying them for that.

 

[Cacia]

THAT is what people don't get about this oversite business...if you ask me.

Look, it's kind of like the guy who "lies" on his insurance. He drive 30 miles to work, not 20. So the insurance company takes his premiums for years then when there is a claim, the first thing they do is move in and look for a loophole. Think they are upset if they find one?

This has been my issue all along about all these mandatory reports to PADI, YOU don't know which side you will end up on for sure...they can dump you at any point in the process. So..to spill your guts to them when the **** hits the fan is not advocating for yourself. PADI is going to protect you only as long as that is what is good for PADI. They prove this over and over if you ask me. Some don't see the conflict of legal interest. You the Instructor, and PADI are two different discrete legal interests. They prey on people who just don't really know better, from what I can tell. To have them control your insurance company (via referral pattern) is even sketchier.

I will admit there is an argument to made on the other side that the collective interest has more power...but at least be aware of the fact that it is "what's good for the herd" as opposed to your individual fanny.

 

[Walter]

Catherine, you are correct. PADI will drop you like a hot potato if it's in their best interests. When I was involved in the PADI law suit, my attorney told me, in general terms, of a PADI instructor she was defending. PADI saw an out and tried to lay all the blame on him. It's not an accident that PADI's standards are written in such a way that experenced PADI instructors will often disagree over what they require and what they forbid.

What I don't understand is when PADI instructors defend PADI when they can clearly see a problem. I just don't understand the concept, it's like some instructor want to accept responsibility for standards. Instructors didn't write the standards, PADI (not the RSTC) wrote PADI's standards.

 

[rawls]

When you say that you do not follow the progression, do you still conduct the skills "in order"? What I mean is, do you complete all of the module 2 skills before you introduce module 3 skills? Above, when you mention breathing from a free flowing regulator, that is not a module 1 skill. It is my understanding that if you introduce that skill prior to completion of all module 1 skills, you would not be meeting standards. Can you elaborate?

Nope...Not going to elaborate any further. Her dedication to diving and teaching new students to dive and dive safely and knowledgeably is her primary goal. She loves diving and loves teaching students to dive. She has been doing it for 30 years, is a Master Instructor and runs a 5 Star PADI operation. Each of you can talk about violations all you want to.

 

[Thalassamania]

Nope...Not going to elaborate any further. Her dedication to diving and teaching new students to dive and dive safely and knowledgeably is her primary goal. She loves diving and loves teaching students to dive. She has been doing it for 30 years, is a Master Instructor and runs a 5 Star PADI operation. Each of you can talk about violations all you want to.

What you're doing, I'm sure, is right. But isn't it a pain to have to hide that?

 

[rawls]

Can't say...We aren't hiding anything She is going to do the program her way...If PADI wants to drop her, she may go to NAUI

 

[Thalassamania]

From what you describe I think she, you and NAUI would all be the better for it.

 

[Cacia]

Catherine, you are correct. PADI will drop you like a hot potato if it's in their best interests. When I was involved in the PADI law suit, my attorney told me, in general terms, of a PADI instructor she was defending. PADI saw an out and tried to lay all the blame on him. It's not an accident that PADI's standards are written in such a way that experenced PADI instructors will often disagree over what they require and what they forbid.

What I don't understand is when PADI instructors defend PADI when they can clearly see a problem

The Kool-aide is not limited to one group or another. I think Nemrod refers to it loosely as "team think". People want so strongly to identify with a group, belong to a collective, they sell themselves down the river, never following the incentive/ interest trail.
I don't get it either. It doesn't upset me, I just feel a responsibility to point it out. If people insist they don't see it that way...it really only gives people like us an edge in the world. (hope that does not sound arrogant) Meanwhile, I continue to urge self-advocacy ever chance I get.

Something bad happens. There will be a likely lawsuit. PADI has the whole process set up where everyone associated with them is required to give them reports of their version of events, yet they have no legal responsibility to you. Unbelievable that they pull that off and it is not questioned very often. If you hired your own lawyer the first hour what do you think his advice to you would be?

PADI is not the only entity that tries to do this...insurance companies are famous for it too. You have to know where your interests begin and theirs end. If you don't understand that, you could end up at a real disadvantage.

 

[Karibelle]

Nope...Not going to elaborate any further. Her dedication to diving and teaching new students to dive and dive safely and knowledgeably is her primary goal. She loves diving and loves teaching students to dive. She has been doing it for 30 years, is a Master Instructor and runs a 5 Star PADI operation. Each of you can talk about violations all you want to.

It sounds like I've offended you; if so, my apologies - that is not my intent. I was hoping to get your perspective... and here's why:

When I was a freshly minted instructor, I had an incident with a dive shop owner. He too has teaching students to dive safely as his stated goal. He did some things in a way that is "not the PADI way, but it's my way." He asked me to do some of those same things. I said no. When push came to shove, I had to quit the dive shop. While his 30 years of experience may well hold up in court, "in the unlikely event" there was ever a problem, all *I* have to cover my own arse is "he told me to do it that way." As long as I follow standards to the letter, I am not hung out to dry. As soon as I deviate from those standards, I had better have a really good reason and explanation, and for me, "because he said so" is not that reason. BTW, the guy in my story is also a Master Instructor and runs a 5 Star PADI operation.

kari

 

[rawls]

It sounds like I've offended you; if so, my apologies - that is not my intent. I was hoping to get your perspective... and here's why:

When I was a freshly minted instructor, I had an incident with a dive shop owner. He too has teaching students to dive safely as his stated goal. He did some things in a way that is "not the PADI way, but it's my way." He asked me to do some of those same things. I said no. When push came to shove, I had to quit the dive shop. While his 30 years of experience may well hold up in court, "in the unlikely event" there was ever a problem, all *I* have to cover my own arse is "he told me to do it that way." As long as I follow standards to the letter, I am not hung out to dry. As soon as I deviate from those standards, I had better have a really good reason and explanation, and for me, "because he said so" is not that reason. BTW, the guy in my story is also a Master Instructor and runs a 5 Star PADI operation.

kari

kari,

I didn't feel like you offended me at all. I appreciated your comments. If I sounded like that please accept my apology...

As long as I follow standards to the letter, I am not hung out to dry

Believe me, there are scum sucking lawyers out there who make livings hanging people out to dry whether they have done anything wrong or not. It is unfortunate but there are actually people who have had to pay for something they didn't do wrong. It happens all the time.

BTW, the guy in my story is also a Master Instructor and runs a 5 Star PADI operation.

You and I are going to stir the NAUI's if we keep up this kind of talk