Overfilling LP Steel Tanks -- How bad is it?

[DA Aquamaster]

I would say the same. You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine.

It is wrong to tell someone to break a rule - period. The rules are in place for safety.

The operating pressure is physically stamped on the tank. That is the limit of the pressure for general use.

Breaking the rules, breaking standards, breaking the law is unethical.

Ethics is a guideline to help us navigate a situation that has no rules to guide us. Ethic's is a guide to help us navigate a rule that is wrong, unsafe, morally questionable, or the rule itself is illegal or imoral. Ethics allows us to stand up for what is right even when told to do something wrong.

Tank pressure, stamped on the side of a tank, it is NOT an ethical discussion.

If you'd like to take this 'off-line', feel free to do so. Publicly berating someone is also questionable.

No need to take it off line, you've made my point nicely. You are correct to the extent you are interpreting the reasons we have ethics, but you are missing the deeper ethical issues that develop when two rules that are both "correct" and "moral" are in conflict.

For example: When working with a client do I choose to weigh the decisions made in favor of letting a person excercise Autonomy even if it creates some risk for them, or do I weight the decision in favor of Nonmaleficence or Beneficence to prevent harm. Recognizing the value of letting the person try and possibly fail is essential. It often comes down to a cost / benefit or best case / worst case analysis and may hinge on whether there is risk of permanent harm. Physicians do something very similar with many treatment decisions where there are both risks and benefits.

It also means that one decision may be right for one person and an opposite decison may be equally right for someone else. Rules cannot create that degree of precision in making the "right" decision.

In comparison, cave diving and overfilling tanks is an easy one as the benefits clearly outweigh the theoretical risks, which so far are zero based on the zero accidents that have actually occurred.

 

[H2Andy]

Breaking the rules, breaking standards, breaking the law is unethical.

on the contrary. every decision is an ethical decision, so deciding whether to follow or not follow a rule is the real choice. giving up your choice to decide is the unethical thing to do.

a rule should not be followed simply because it's a rule. in the extreme, that leads to Auschwitz. in less extreme cases, that leads to people doing things without questioning what they are doing and whether it's the right thing to do or not.

well, it's the rule ... end of story

 

[SharkDiver36]

Prosecutor asking the cylinder manufacture:
"What does the stamp on the cylinder that says 3,000 mean"

Manufacture responds:
"That is the maxium operating fill pressure."

Prosecutor:
"And who sets those standards?"

Manufacturer:
"The US Department of transportaion".

Prosecutor:
"and why is that number put there?"

Manufacture:
"safety"

Prosecutor:
"So is it possible for a tank to blow up and someone die if it's overfilled".

Manufacturer:
"Yes"

Prosecutors Summary:
....bet there is no ethics in that summary.


Good luck to the two of you in court with your ethics and pyhsics....only point I was ever making.

 

[H2Andy]

Good luck to the two of you in court with your ethics and pyhsics....

pray tell, sir, what cause of action may result in me being in court over this issue?

 

[AceszHigh]

So...what I have gathered here is, pretty much..if you overfill any tank..."youre gonna die!"

 

[H2Andy]

So...what I have gathered here is, pretty much..if you overfill any tank..."youre gonna die!"

well, you're gonna die anyway ... so might as well overfill

 

[AceszHigh]

well, you're gonna die anyway ... so might as well overfill

I'm coming to accept that fact that I'm going to die by way of tank overfill. SharkDiver, who admitted in an earlier post that he sometimes overfills his tanks, seems to want to debate the so-called ethics/morality of my personal decision to commit suicide by said tank overfill.
Let's just make is easier on both of us and make suicide illegal to eliminate such problems...unless of course I decide not to follow that law and continue overfilling ;-)


On another note, I was very disappointed on my dive trip this morning because my AL80 was only filled to 5000 :-( Guess the LDS turned off the compressor early.

 

[D_B]

You miss his point .. telling someone else to break a law is different from doing so yourself, especially if your in some official capacity

In a sport that promotes safety and safety practices, I always find these discussions .. interesting

 

[H2Andy]

You miss his point .. telling someone else to break a law

there is no law that says you can't dive with a cylinder that has been overfilled

when i dive with an overfilled cylinder, i am breaking no law

In a sport that promotes safety and safety practices

do you have any data on how unsafe diving with overfilled tanks is, or are you just assuming that it must be unsafe?

 

[D_B]

sorry ... I thought that filling the cylinder over the stamped markings and transporting it in your vehicle was against a law

and I still find the whole overfilling (to a high amount) concept interesting