Over-balanced regulators

[tbone1004]

Is it a CS issue or a supply chain issue? They aren't the same AFAIK. There is no issues with their supply chain beyond the global supply chain issues. They are doing very well compared with many others.




Nope, this isn't the case.



It isn't an issue for 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of divers out there so why is it an issue in the context of this thread? If I were diving to beyond 100m, I'd be using a Scubapro, Apeks or Atomic M1 exclusively nothing else. (In reality, to dive these depths, I'd be using CCr not OC).

Huish is a self-created supply chain issue and the Hollis CS issues are very well documented and have not improved, though Huish isn't known for their CS either. Again, both of these are well documented with dealers at least in the US. It may be different elsewhere. It is not a "me" issue since I am not dealing with them directly but it is a sentiment echo'd by many.

It is not possible for an Apeks XTX to be tuned to factory setpoint and dive well beyond 200m with an environmental seal installed, that defies how regulators work because the IP increases beyond what the second stage balance mechanism can compensate for. The specific depth that it tips is not fixed because of variability in spring rates, but they will all freeflow because of the over-compensation for ambient pressure at some point. When going deeper than 100m the second stages are typically detuned a bit *closer to what most people think of as "octopus tuning" vs "primary tuning". They breathe normally once you get all the way down.

While it may not be an issue for anyone outside of a handful of divers the title of the thread is discussing over-balancing of regulators.

Scuba Engineer made this chart a bunch of years ago. This is a function of size of the environmental transmitter vs the diaphragm transmitter which gives the "boost" ratio. This was done with an Apeks DST but it will apply to all of the original style Apeks regulators *not MTX, etc*. You can take this and check it for yourself if you don't believe me. Set the IP to 9.5bar and tune the second stage how you would normally. If diving to 100m then crank the IP up to 11.5 and see if it freeflows. If you think it can go to 200m then crank it up to 13.5bar and see if it freeflows. The point that it starts free flowing can be referenced against the chart below to find out its depth rating with the environmental seal installed. Anyone else can adapt this chart to their regulator by calculating the ratio of the area of the environmental transmitter to the seat on the first stage diaphragm and extrapolate out.

I'm confused why you said you would choose regulators that are only certified to 50m depth and are ignoring Poseidon which is certified to 200m?

 

[BoltSnap]

Huish is a self-created supply chain issue and the Hollis CS issues are very well documented and have not improved, though Huish isn't known for their CS either. Again, both of these are well documented with dealers at least in the US. It may be different elsewhere. It is not a "me" issue since I am not dealing with them directly but it is a sentiment echo'd by many.

You bring out these issues as if you were a system analyst who has done studies with Huish supply chain and CS yet you say that you are "not dealing with them directly." "A sentiment echo'd by many" sounds like an argument that is built to the unknown, unidentified and the unquantified as part of a smear campaign against Huish based on totally unfounded allegations. This makes me wounder who you are trying to benefit, could it be another manufacturer you are affiliated and in love with??

It is not possible for an Apeks XTX to be tuned to factory setpoint and dive well beyond 200m with an environmental seal installed, that defies how regulators work because the IP increases beyond what the second stage balance mechanism can compensate for.

Now it is "200m"? Your argument is riding a yo-yo it seems.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I've been using D6 regs for 3 years now. Is there a noticeable difference with overbalanced regs vs standard balanced diaphragm regulators at 100-150'? When I take the regulator training, hopefully I'll be able to tune them better moving forward. I was thinking of getting the Apeks MTX or my local dive shop recommends Hollis DCX which has a fifth port which helps with routing in my opinion. Does anyone have positive or negative opinions of the Hollis or Apeks? Thanks!!

There's absolutely no reason for you to change regulators. I've been below 200 feet with my Deep 6 regs which performed just fine. I did not notice any difference in WOB despite being a little nervous at those depths the first time.

Please ignore the p!ssing match taking place here. Someone in particular has a personal problem with the founders of Deep 6.

I would invite you to review the new Deep 6 manual that @LandonL posted here: New Deep6 Service Manual available.. It includes a link to the new manual here: Service Manual. It was written by @rsingler, and he did an excellent job, as it serves both the experienced tech as well as a tutorial for people new to regulator services. That SB thread also includes unofficial videos for servicing Deep 6 regs. I cannot comment about the correctness of such. I did discuss with @LandonL for Deep 6 to produce their own official videos that would be available to those who have taken the class.

To answer your question, both those regulators are good ones, but switching offers you zero benefit.

 

[rvojr]

There's absolutely no reason for you to change regulators. I've been below 200 feet with my Deep 6 regs which performed just fine. I did not notice any difference in WOB despite being a little nervous at those depths the first time.

Please ignore the p!ssing match taking place here. Someone in particular has a personal problem with the founders of Deep 6.

I would invite you to review the new Deep 6 manual that @LandonL posted here: New Deep6 Service Manual available.. It includes a link to the new manual here: Service Manual. It was written by @rsingler, and he did an excellent job, as it serves both the experienced tech as well as a tutorial for people new to regulator services. That SB thread also includes unofficial videos for servicing Deep 6 regs. I cannot comment about the correctness of such. I did discuss with @LandonL for Deep 6 to produce their own official videos that would be available to those who have taken the class.

To answer your question, both those regulators are good ones, but switching offers you zero benefit.

Thanks, Wetb4igetinthewater. I've been in contact with Rsingler and am trying to get into a class for the regs once I receive a couple of the tools ordered online. I can probably get them adjusted a little better, which with my few dives between services is probably just them breaking in and need a little tweek here or there.

 

[tbone1004]

You bring out these issues as if you were a system analyst who has done studies with Huish supply chain and CS yet you say that you are "not dealing with them directly." "A sentiment echo'd by many" sounds like an argument that is built to the unknown, unidentified and the unquantified as part of a smear campaign against Huish based on totally unfounded allegations. This makes me wounder who you are trying to benefit, could it be another manufacturer you are affiliated and in love with??





Now it is "200m"? Your argument is riding a yo-yo it seems.

I have no formal affiliation with any manufacturer. I am good friends with people that work at several of them but I have no formal relationship with any regulator manufacturer. I do however work with international logistics all day every day and I know that if an order is placed with Scubapro and Aqualung they show up quickly and conversely an order with Huish is usually reported back as backordered.

Burhan, can we argue that your love for Atomic is causing you to be blinded?

Where did I yo-yo? My first post just said "well beyond 300ft".