Over-balanced regulators

[rvojr]

I've been using D6 regs for 3 years now. Is there a noticeable difference with overbalanced regs vs standard balanced diaphragm regulators at 100-150'? When I take the regulator training, hopefully I'll be able to tune them better moving forward. I was thinking of getting the Apeks MTX or my local dive shop recommends Hollis DCX which has a fifth port which helps with routing in my opinion. Does anyone have positive or negative opinions of the Hollis or Apeks? Thanks!!

 

[tbone1004]

I have nothing positive to say about Hollis/Huish as a company, and nothing about their regs will be better than D6. Their customer and dealer support is trash and their regs are just "fine".
I have nothing positive to say about Apeks/Aqualung as a company, and there is nothing about their regs that will be better than the D6 with the exception of the wide exhaust T's which I am begging @LandonL to implement. Their CS is also trash and their regulators have inferior plating compared to Deep6. The wide exhaust T's is the only thing from Apeks that the Deep6 Signature series isn't objectively better.

Overbalancing is a marketing term used to try to compensate for poor choices in gas planning from a gas density standpoint and if the regulators are both balanced *which they are with all D6 and Apeks regulators* then you aren't going to notice any difference until you get well below 300ft and then they will start to freeflow uncontrollably because the IP increases at a faster rate than ambient pressure so they freeflow when the second stage balance mechanism can't cope with the increase in IP. Make wise choices with gas density and it doesn't matter.

 

[rvojr]

Ok, thanks for explaining it to me. I'll never be going below 300' not to mention probably 150-200', but I'll take the regulator class for D6 and stick with them. From looking at the new manual, it looks like I ran into the seat getting a set and had to adjust the cracking pressure higher. I only do roughly 50 dives a year so it seemed like an issue but in reality was just finally "broken in." Would the wide exhaust Ts be an easy retrofit? It looks like the 2nd stage housing body would have to be replaced or the exhaust cover. I wouldn't know any better with the bubbles further than my face because other than getting certified I've used the D6 regs.

 

[tbone1004]

Ok, thanks for explaining it to me. I'll never be going below 300' not to mention probably 150-200', but I'll take the regulator class for D6 and stick with them. From looking at the new manual, it looks like I ran into the seat getting a set and had to adjust the cracking pressure higher. I only do roughly 50 dives a year so it seemed like an issue but in reality was just finally "broken in." Would the wide exhaust Ts be an easy retrofit? It looks like the 2nd stage housing body would have to be replaced or the exhaust cover. I wouldn't know any better with the bubbles further than my face because other than getting certified I've used the D6 regs.

The wider exhaust T's are just about moving exhaust bubbles, but it would require a new body as the current exhaust T's are molded into the main body.

Stick with the D6 if they're the Signature, you won't find better support and frankly won't find an appreciably better regulator.

 

[BoltSnap]

I have nothing positive to say about Hollis/Huish as a company, and nothing about their regs will be better than D6. Their customer and dealer support is trash and their regs are just "fine".
I have nothing positive to say about Apeks/Aqualung as a company, and there is nothing about their regs that will be better than the D6 with the exception of the wide exhaust T's which I am begging @LandonL to implement. Their CS is also trash and their regulators have inferior plating compared to Deep6. The wide exhaust T's is the only thing from Apeks that the Deep6 Signature series isn't objectively better.

Really? And Hollis and Aqualung are still around as companies with this such bad products and CS??

What makes you say this about their CS? Are you a dealer and have you interacted with Huish and AL personally? My experience and the experience of MANY other dealers I know and I have talked to many of them in EMEA and US is totally different from your experience.

Overbalancing is a marketing term used to try to compensate for poor choices in gas planning from a gas density standpoint and if the regulators are both balanced *which they are with all D6 and Apeks regulators* then you aren't going to notice any difference until you get well below 300ft and then they will start to freeflow uncontrollably because the IP increases at a faster rate than ambient pressure so they freeflow when the second stage balance mechanism can't cope with the increase in IP. Make wise choices with gas density and it doesn't matter.

That's strange, I was in Egypt few months ago diving out of Sharm and ALL Egyptian technical divers who go to depths greater than 100 meter (some to150 meters) use Apeks or Scubapro and none of them complained about the over balancing feature or had ANYTHING bad to say at all, none. These Egyptian divers must not know what they are doing or talking about. Perhaps you can go there and show them the way to the light...

I am surprised that AL/Apeks engineers will let products out of their assembly line with such unreliable feature and regulators, this is criminal. Please make sure that you report this crime.

 

[tbone1004]

Really? And Hollis and Aqualung are still around as companies with this such bad products and CS??

What makes you say this about their CS? Are you a dealer and have you interacted with Huish and AL personally? My experience and the experience of MANY other dealers I know and I have talked to many of them in EMEA and US is totally different from your experience.




That's strange, I was in Egypt few months ago diving out of Sharm and ALL Egyptian technical divers who go to depths greater than 100 meter (some to150 meters) use Apeks or Scubapro and none of them complained about the over balancing feature or had ANYTHING bad to say at all, none. These Egyptian divers must no know what they are doing or talking about. Perhaps you can go there and show them the way to the light...

I am surprised that AL/Apeks engineers will let products out of their assembly line with such unreliable feature and regulators, this is criminal. Please make sure that you report this crime.

I am associated with dealers for both Huish and AL. The support from those companies in the US is quite bad and Huish has not fixed the supply chain issues that plagued AUP before they were acquired. This is direct experience.

The egyptian divers either have the second stages detuned or the environmental seals removed. If the environmental seal is removed the first stage is no longer overbalanced. There is a reason they are depth rated.... This applies to the Deep6 regulators as well, everything that is over-compensating for depth will do it eventually. That's why Poseidon doesn't put environmental seals on their first stages and why the older first stage designs that did have the caps were liquid filled instead of using a hard pressure transmitter. Doesn't matter for the vast majority of people but it is something to be mindful of.

 

[Skunky]

I am associated with dealers for both Huish and AL. The support from those companies in the US is quite bad and Huish has not fixed the supply chain issues that plagued AUP before they were acquired. This is direct experience.

So am I. I don’t have any of the experiences you described. Sounds like a “you” problem and not a “we” problem.

 

[grantctobin]

So am I. I don’t have any of the experiences you described. Sounds like a “you” problem and not a “we” problem.

How do you feel about the Apeks seat issues? TBone experience isn't that uncommon....

 

[BoltSnap]

I am associated with dealers for both Huish and AL. The support from those companies in the US is quite bad and Huish has not fixed the supply chain issues that plagued AUP before they were acquired. This is direct experience.

Is it a CS issue or a supply chain issue? They aren't the same AFAIK. There is no issues with their supply chain beyond the global supply chain issues. They are doing very well compared with many others.

The egyptian divers either have the second stages detuned or the environmental seals removed. If the environmental seal is removed the first stage is no longer overbalanced.

Nope, this isn't the case.

Doesn't matter for the vast majority of people but it is something to be mindful of.

It isn't an issue for 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of divers out there so why is it an issue in the context of this thread? If I were diving to beyond 100m, I'd be using a Scubapro, Apeks or Atomic M1 exclusively nothing else. (In reality, to dive these depths, I'd be using CCr not OC).

 

[BoltSnap]

So am I. I don’t have any of the experiences you described. Sounds like a “you” problem and not a “we” problem.

I don't know why he complains since he isn't using Huish products.