outrage at instructor's intervening with local law

[Genesis]

and he's doing it under PADI's flag!

Let's put the response right where it belongs!

 

[Scubaroo]

Funny how the PADI course director mentions all of the enrichment activities divers should be encouraged to take... I did a quick list and noticed something -

navigating = PADI Underwater Navigator
deep diving = PADI Deep Diver
wreck diving = PADI Wreck Diver
night diving = PADI Night Diver
nitrox = PADI Enriched Air Diver
perfect buoyancy = PADI Peak Performance Buoyancy
first aid = PADI Medic First Aid
rescue = PADI Rescue Diver
master diver = PADI Master Scuba Diver
assistant instructor = PADI Assistant Instructor

He seems more concerned about the lack of willingness of Israeli divers to pay for more PADI courses than anything else. IMO he's abusing his position for commercial gain.

In PADI's defence though, so far this is merely a letter written by ONE individual, so I don't see how a boycott of PADI worldwide would be appropriate. No offense Genesis, but I could have put money on you suggesting that course of action. Voicing your concerns directly to the Israeli Sport Diving Authority would be a much more effective course of action for those who wish to involve themselves, than a blanket boycott of PADI courses at an LDS in another country. What's an American or Australian PADI shop owner got to do with a greedy Israeli course director?

 

[FredT]

bengiddins once bubbled...
IMO he's abusing his position for commercial gain.
------------much cut----------------
What's an American or Australian PADI shop got to do with a greedy Israeli course director?

Making it a worldwide effort may hasten the desirable outcome. That outcome being the pulling of this course director's ticket and forcing him to find other ways of eating that don't involve us! Just the letters to PADI promising a boycott may be enough to clean this guy's clock before the "boycott" impacts too many shops.

FT

 

[Scubaroo]

FredT once bubbled...
Just the letters to PADI promising a boycott may be enough to clean this guy's clock before the "boycott" impacts too many shops.

Agreed - PADI needs to hear about it directly. Maybe Genesis can fire up his much touted auto faxer. Assuming orbiter and other Israeli divers want people overseas to be involved.

 

[dc4bs]

OK, for the sake of arguement, just suppose the law passed:

How soon would every diver who does any kind of regular diving in the country be a DM? And just how many of those might be 'questionable' certs (just did the minimum so big brother gets off their backs)?

How many would be certified by instructor 'friends' just so they can dive when and where they want?.

How would this serve to make diving safer?

You would be far more likely to have DMs who have hardly any diving experiance appart from required coursework dives. Personaly, I probably wouldn't want to dive with one of these divers.

I'd likely rather dive with the basic OW diver who has 100+ dives than a DM with the least possible dives required to be one. Quite a few of the new DMs dives will have been 'sheltered' dives with instructors. I figure the OW/100+ diver would have lots more real-world diving experience than the new DM even if he may not be able to recite the gas-laws from memory or be able to puzzle out how 'the wheel' works... BTW: I know a few OW divers like this - really good divers)

Can anybody say 'fake ID'? I'm sure it wouldn't be long. They produce them from scanned in pics on a PC anyway right? Basicaly, this gets around the anual membership fees to PADI, etc. (required to be a DM) and to the insurance company (a DM is REQUIRED to carry insurance). All this nonsense, just to be able to go to your dive site of choice...

I'll withold from ranting about big-government in general as this isn't the right place to vent on that subject. Pass a law. Make new criminals where there never were before. What kind of fine/penalty would there be if you got caught diving without both budies being a DM or higher rated?

There's the potential for LOTS of money to be made by dive agencies, insurance companys and government fines, fees, etc. I'm very interested to see how this turns out cause when lots of money can be 'leagaly' swiped from the public, bad things just have a way of happening sometimes.

 

[Bob3]

... the potential for LOTS of money to be made ...

Geeze, wish ya hadn't phrased it THAT way. Now the govt is SURE to get involved. (gotta get their cut!!)
:mean:

 

[orbiter]

bengiddins once bubbled...


In PADI's defence though, so far this is merely a letter written by ONE individual*

The problem is...
that this individual who happens to be a PADI course director also happens to be on a professional diving commity which advises the Israeli diving authority - therefore he weilds considerable influence - how considerable, we dont know since this commity as well as all IDA meetings include 3 members of the IDA along with the Diving certification organizations (a.e PADI,SSI,NAUI etc.).
during one of our diving forum get togethers one of the IDA representatives was present (originally the get together was intended to be a lecture he was giving on diving accidents) and agreed to look in to trying to get one or two of our own representatives into those meetings (so that the diving community will be able to take part - even passively and there will be others in the room without economic interests).
none of us have anything against PADI as an organization nor do we feel that their certification isnt up to standard - at least i dont - but we feel that they should publically let thier position be known and should disown mr sayag - the instructor were talking about until he "takes it back".

 

[orbiter]

dc4bs once bubbled...
OK, for the sake of arguement, just suppose the law passed:

How soon would every diver who does any kind of regular diving in the country be a DM? And just how many of those might be 'questionable' certs (just did the minimum so big brother gets off their backs)?

even if every single diver in israel was a DM just for the sake of the argument - or even all instructors - they would still have to dive - only guided dives led by diving club personell - the guided dives are the issue - and economically driven one as far as i can understand. otherwise the intended letter would call for dives with DM or instructors - and your claims are valid in that case - i also preffer experienced aow divers to unexperienced DM's - even though i myself am a dm (ssi divecon which is also an assitant instructor).

 

[orbiter]

bengiddins once bubbled...


Agreed - PADI needs to hear about it directly. Maybe Genesis can fire up his much touted auto faxer. Assuming orbiter and other Israeli divers want people overseas to be involved.

if diving in one country comes under guided diving regulation - sooner or later other countries might use this for their own legislation - but furthermore - when i dive overseas (not often as i just finished varsity) i like to dive unguided - just me, my dive buddy and the great blue. if i had to choose between diving in a country in which dives are only guided dives - and one where this sport is as it was intended to be - and individual sport - i think my choice would be easy.
as to whether the other divers in the local forum are interested in help from our international brothers and sisters - i do not know , but i can find out and let you know. as an individual - sure i think that international pressure would help shed light on how one of the largest if not the largest diving organizations feels about the issue.
anyway - i'd like to thank everyone who took part until now and those who will continue taking part - as for me - i really need the nitrogen so i'm going down to eilat for a few deep dives and will be back on friday. if its ok with everyone i'd like to post your responses in the local diving forum - i at least felt great at reading your responses which just go to show that divers are individuals even though they dive in a community.
thanks, and until friday - dive safe.

 

[Genesis]

And if you want a faxed petition of a boycott announcement to be put up on my web fax-server (hoh hoh here we go!) let me know with a show of hands here as well.

Its easy for me to do, and I'd be happy to do it.