opinions on SDI-TDI Tech Courses
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JeffG
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Don't worry about them, Alan....they're Canadians...chances are they weren't raised right and don't know any better!Besides, if either of them had a lick of sense they'd know it's not the years you've been diving it's the number and quality of dives that count. Hell, one of 'em doesn't appear to be comfortable, or able, to dive safely below 120' on air. Sounds pretty lame to me...in my most humble, and technically inexperienced, opinion.
Too funny
That's one of the things i was looking at, but you really need a team of about 6 or more to do Public Safety diving correctly, but i can do all the training, and just have to be a tender. i'm working on getting stuff together to try to get a Dive team, but it cost lots of money, llots of training, and need alot of people interested in it.
What is your deal, man? You clearly don't know as much about TDI as you think you do...either that or I really lucked out with my instructor.
The fact is that several TDI courses were developed to be taken together. Deco Procedures and Adv. Nitrox are generally taught simultaneously. The same holds true for Extended Rangeand Trimix. They are meant to be taught at the same time...not separately. Is this getting through to you? Do you really think people take the class (the two together) and then say, "You know, I like being narced out of my mind at 200'. I think I'll just stick with air and not dive trimix at depth." My guess is...ummmm...none. Zero.
This is whole conversation really kind of funny and very ironic. In your PM to me about TexDiveGuy you claimed your and your buddy's slandering him was to show he was an inexperienced wannabe tech diver. In fact you guys were so rude and off target the moderator removed the post. Now, here you are acting like a TDI expert when you really don't know anything other than what you've read or heard about the agency. Either that or you're just out to slander a competing organization.
BTW, as an aside, if you knew TexDiveGuy you would also know that what you two said about him could not be further from the truth. Alan is very experienced and well-trained. He isn't a braggart or a fanatic and he doesn't believe there is one organization out there that has all the answers. He's very knowledgeable and helps a lot of folks on this board get answers to their questions.
I gotta give you one thing though. You're consistent about spouting off about things you know little or nothing of.
JeffG
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Please keep in mind two facts:
1. This is an international board. In many well-known dive destinations globally, such as Truk Lagoon for example, there is zero access to helium. If you do not bring your own gas, or if you don't arrange to have helium shipped to Truk in advance, you will be diving below 150' on compressed air. Same thing goes, for example, for the nuclear wrecks at Bikini Atoll.
2. For anyone who was actively diving in the 1970s and 1980s (as was the President and CEO of TDI/SDI, who published a very good book on "Deep Diving"), they would routinely dive to depths up to 200' and greater on compressed air. Up until the end of the 1980s there was no alternative, except for small numbers of NOAA divers and cave divers. It is difficult for guys who have safely made hundreds of dives to depths between 170' and 200' on compressed air to buy into the post-modern hysteria surrounding the subject of deep air. Comparing their personal experiences against the hype and wild-eyed screams of dismay on the internet results in cognitive dissonance.
The specific language in the TDI course outline is:
"Certain areas of the world provide spectacular dives at depths deeper than 39m/130 feet but you will not have access (or very limited access) to helium. The TDI Extended Range course teaches you the proper techniques for utilizing compressed air as a breathing gas and with a maximum depth of 55m/180 feet you won’t have to miss those dives."
No one is saying that anyone is 'promoting' deep air when there are safer alternatives.
The point is that on occasion, in other places on this planet, there are no other alternatives. Message from the Head Divemaster (scroll about 4/5s of the way down the page)
If you don't want to take the course, or if you're not planning on traveling to Truk, Bikini Atoll, or the hundreds of other places on the globe where deep dives without helium will be the norm, don't take the course.
It isn't worth all the hand-wringing and dung-flinging.
1. This is an international board. In many well-known dive destinations globally, such as Truk Lagoon for example, there is zero access to helium. If you do not bring your own gas, or if you don't arrange to have helium shipped to Truk in advance, you will be diving below 150' on compressed air. Same thing goes, for example, for the nuclear wrecks at Bikini Atoll.
2. For anyone who was actively diving in the 1970s and 1980s (as was the President and CEO of TDI/SDI, who published a very good book on "Deep Diving"), they would routinely dive to depths up to 200' and greater on compressed air. Up until the end of the 1980s there was no alternative, except for small numbers of NOAA divers and cave divers. It is difficult for guys who have safely made hundreds of dives to depths between 170' and 200' on compressed air to buy into the post-modern hysteria surrounding the subject of deep air. Comparing their personal experiences against the hype and wild-eyed screams of dismay on the internet results in cognitive dissonance.
The specific language in the TDI course outline is:
"Certain areas of the world provide spectacular dives at depths deeper than 39m/130 feet but you will not have access (or very limited access) to helium. The TDI Extended Range course teaches you the proper techniques for utilizing compressed air as a breathing gas and with a maximum depth of 55m/180 feet you won’t have to miss those dives."
No one is saying that anyone is 'promoting' deep air when there are safer alternatives.
The point is that on occasion, in other places on this planet, there are no other alternatives. Message from the Head Divemaster (scroll about 4/5s of the way down the page)
If you don't want to take the course, or if you're not planning on traveling to Truk, Bikini Atoll, or the hundreds of other places on the globe where deep dives without helium will be the norm, don't take the course.
It isn't worth all the hand-wringing and dung-flinging.
Wow, this thread is amazing. I really can't believe I made it all the way through without throwing up. Anyway, here is my 2 cents. I too believe it is the instructor and not the agency. Yes, standards do matter but if the instructor teaches beyond any set of standards, and hopefully we all do, the agency is only supporting and protecting the instruction.
There are a number of agencies out there and each has their good and bad aspects. This is equally true of technical instructors. It is the job of the student to find an agency whose standards they agree with as well as an instructor who they can tolerate and who will offer them a challenging and very beneficial class. For me the bottom line is when I teach a student, I am hoping for a dive buddy down the line so I want to teach them to a level I will feel comfortable with when my life is on the line.
Over the years, I have taken several TDI courses - my advanced nitrox and stagged deco class were both taught by someone I cannot stand now but who was a very very good instructor. My Trimix course was very lacking in fundamentals and we used the advanced trimix book because the basic book was written very poorly.
Because of the information on the internet and else where, I do not feel you can blame bad instruction on books or agencies. A good instructor will find supplemental information to provide to their students and use their own experiences as well. As far as TDI is concerned, I would not hesitate to take a class if I needed to as long as I could find an instructor I felt had the necessary experience and was a good instructor who pulled information from a variety of sources. If you looked in my instructor notebook, you will find sections from NAUI, GUE, TDI and SSI. I use everything I can...
Currently I am a SSI Technical Foundations instructor. This is a new path for SSI and so there are issues which are being dealt with but as I said, I also provide additional information. I do feel the books are written well but I think SSI has a ways to go as far as the agency when it comes to technical diving.
And just so you know, I do not agree with deep air but that is just my opinion and I am entitled to it. I also believe in He beyond 130 ft...
Layne
There are a number of agencies out there and each has their good and bad aspects. This is equally true of technical instructors. It is the job of the student to find an agency whose standards they agree with as well as an instructor who they can tolerate and who will offer them a challenging and very beneficial class. For me the bottom line is when I teach a student, I am hoping for a dive buddy down the line so I want to teach them to a level I will feel comfortable with when my life is on the line.
Over the years, I have taken several TDI courses - my advanced nitrox and stagged deco class were both taught by someone I cannot stand now but who was a very very good instructor. My Trimix course was very lacking in fundamentals and we used the advanced trimix book because the basic book was written very poorly.
Because of the information on the internet and else where, I do not feel you can blame bad instruction on books or agencies. A good instructor will find supplemental information to provide to their students and use their own experiences as well. As far as TDI is concerned, I would not hesitate to take a class if I needed to as long as I could find an instructor I felt had the necessary experience and was a good instructor who pulled information from a variety of sources. If you looked in my instructor notebook, you will find sections from NAUI, GUE, TDI and SSI. I use everything I can...
Currently I am a SSI Technical Foundations instructor. This is a new path for SSI and so there are issues which are being dealt with but as I said, I also provide additional information. I do feel the books are written well but I think SSI has a ways to go as far as the agency when it comes to technical diving.
And just so you know, I do not agree with deep air but that is just my opinion and I am entitled to it. I also believe in He beyond 130 ft...
Layne
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