opinions on SDI-TDI Tech Courses

[Steve R]

TO: John_B & rjack321 & Steve R & Jay Roy (JR shows a few agencies only)........
Since your bio's like so many others does not show anything about your diving background..training...experience....agencies (except ole JR's ) maybe you could share that with us...at this stage were not sure you have a clue about scuba diving....I may be wrong.
But you know there are a lot of internet divers & toilet bowl divers here on SB....'please' validate your background and maybe your input could be considered worth reading in the future. IMO

Well I guess it's time to break the silence isn't it?

Listen Alan, the only thing I've ever said to you was about 12 pages ago, and it was with respect to your perceived experience. I really didn't want the guy you were trashing to think you have as much as your rather vocal opinion would lead him to believe.

As it turns out I was darn accurate about you by your own admission, wasn't I. Imagine that huh?

Well, except that your Nitrox class a couple years ago was Padi not TDI. I guess what I said really struck a nerve. Usually that happens when the truth is revealed. (Oh hey, if it makes you feel better, I don't have an advanced mix card as you do, so notch one it your column).

I also do not have Extended range, solo diver and probably a whole lot more that you do have. I guess I am old-school in this regard. You have to earn it over time. Lots of time. I follow what I teach so I apply to myself what I expect of my students.

The only reason you were ever on my radar to begin with anyway, was over the past while you had been asking folks I know some rather basic questions, which is fine, we all started from the same place, but it tells some of us a lot about what you don't yet know.

What gave me cause for concern was that it seems in just two short years, and what, maybe a couple hundred dives over and above the less than 200 dives you've had since 1971? (Clearly you had a 30 year hiatus from diving didn't you), it seems to me you've come a long ways in the card collecting category, and unfortunately have the mouth that generally goes along with it.

The issue I have here is that it's not your fault, but again it is with agencies that see fit to card-up people before their actual experience has even had a chance to catch up.

Between yourself and your buddy, I have to tell you you've done a perfect job in just this one thread of proving to those of us that have been diving for longer than the four years of experience you two have between you, how effed up diver training, and more pointedly here tech diver training has become.

Do yourself and your pal a favour bud, stop digging the hole, and stop PMing me. I don't really care what you have to say, because I know what you've said and asked in the recent past. You two are looking like the fools you are, and you display it well.

I don't think you would talk like this to these same people at say TDS where the gloves are allowed to come off a little more. You two are better suited to the kiddie pool here in scubaboard, I agree.

If you guys are really hell bent on talking to me about anything, pick up the phone. I want to hear you say it. I am not a sock puppet, and my full name, addy and phone number are easily had, and I can assure you that if you call SDI/TDI, they know who I am, so there's always that approach as well. I have no issues standing on my own two feet and backing it up.

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I don't know guys, it's always the same pattern that I think we've all followed. You get a handful of 'big' training dives, a half dozen post training forays, get a couple years in, feeling big because dive # 100, 200, 300 just rolled over.....wham......internet expert.......


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[k-valve]

You don't have a clue.....

You lock-step, DIR (aka "Do it my way or I'm gonna call you names.") guys think everything someone says about you is a slam. Was there any indication that my comment about his signature was a flame? If I was making fun of him I would have thrown something in there to let you know...word, a smiley laughing and rolling around on the ground, etc.

All I said was that the link would tell something about John_B...because John_B refuses to let anyone know what his experience is. Ask me what mine is I'll tell you, but most of you guys who are talkin' such a big game around here keep yours secret. At least Jeff tells us a little about his diving experience in his profile and even admits he wasn't always successful.

So, why would one hide their experience unless they're just talking smack? I'm beginning to think that is exactly what is happening here. A bunch of boys feeling threatened, overreacting and telling everyone they're wrong. You know you might have more people adopting a DIR approach if some many proclaimed DIR divers weren't so full of themselves and try ing to make everyone else look like idiots at every turn.

You assume that I don't have a clue, but you don't know anything about me other than the comments I've written in this thread...most of which are just trying to get the narrow-minded, do it my way or you're an idiot, clan all stirred up. Yes, I know, it's super easy to get DIR divers all spun up...not much of a challenge there.

You'd think the way ya'll talk that you'd have a little more confidence in yourselves, but a bunch don't. Most of you on this thread talk a big game, but when someone asks about your credentials you sidestep the question.

Just for your information, not that you deserve and explanation, I plan every single dive and stick to my plan. My gear is as redundant as I can make it. I've adopted several DIR gear strategies and have been confused for a DIR diver by the less informed before because of my gear setup. Most of John_B's "gas plan" link is just good, common sense, basic diving strategy and info. I don't agree that I shouldn't be able to dive deeper than 85' with 85cf tank that's all. If you want to be ultra conservative that's your business. Don't tell me I don't have a clue just 'cause I don't do everything the way YOU think I should.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

************************* Mod Warning ************************


Well, this has been fun.

But I think we've about flogged every beneficial thing out of this thread, and then some.

If there are any among you who feel that this thread should not be closed and forever consigned to one of the lower depths of hell, please speak now or forever hold your peace.

Unless any of you speak up, this thread will shortly be closed.

Thanks...


************************* Mod Warning ************************

 

[ianr33]

Thank You !!

 

[amascuba]

Hey, Alan, have you checked out the "gas plan" link in John_B's quote? That'll tell you something about him.

If I hadn't already checked it out myself I would of thought he was talking about flatulence...in which case the world would be a better place!

So, John, if I overfill my LP85s may I please dive deeper than eighty-five feet? You're killin' me here!!

Actually the 'gas plan' link posted was written by lamont and is an attempt to fill in a gap that is left out of basic open water. It is my opinion and many others that gas planning should be taught at the very basic levels of scuba diving and the industry is doing itself a disservice by not teaching it. Gas planning should also include how much gas it will take to get you and a team mate to the surface from the deepest portion of your dive at the end of the planned bottom time and rock bottom is a very reasonable approach to that. Unfortunately TDI only teaches gas planning as an individual concept and therefore leaves the team out of the equation.

As an agency I believe that TDI is behind the curve and is stuck in diving concepts that are 20+ years old. I haven't seen any of the new materials, but the materials that I have show that. That's not to say that the individual instructor may take the class into the new millennium and teach some updated concepts.

DIR is a horrible acronym, I admit that. And it has a bad stigma because of a individual and a few vocal advocates, but DIR, IMHO, is the pinnacle of safe diving. The whole concept came about because of group of divers had a common goal that they wanted to accomplish and they wanted to do it as safe as possible. Their safety record is living proof of how safe is really is and speaks volumes. That doesn't mean that people who dive DIR are mindless and only follow what the procedures say. It is the opposite. It teaches divers to think for themselves and do what makes sense in their environment.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you are going to die if you don't follow DIR procedures or if you dive deep air. I might bring up the fact that diving deep air is less efficient and less safe because your reactions are delayed because of the narcotic effects of not only nitrogen, but also oxygen. GUE has a great book about why they think this. The Fundamentals of Technical Diving. PM me and I may get you a copy.

All this bickering and slander is getting ridiculous. It reminds me of the funny quote "Fighting on the Internet is like running a race in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded."

I could care less about every bodies credentials or how long they have been diving. Put your hurt ego's away and answer the question with your experiences.

 

[LVX]

Please; for the love of God close it. It is like a car wreck. I can't take my eyes off of it...

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Thread Closed.