Open, Semi or Closed-Circuit?

[nereas]

1) PADI/DSAT doesn't have any rebreather training at all. Nor any cave training, although they do have a cavern course. How and why are you interested in them??

2) with less than 50 dives the OP should really just go diving for awhile before talking about RBs and technical training.

Since you are DIR (presumably GUE-dir), then ostensibly, CCRs are not DIR anyway, since DIR is a specific type of cave-oriented open circuit protocol. [Unless DIR has changed, again, and now CCRs are ok with DIR?]

If the O/P is interested in CCRs, he/she should get to work in that direction asap before buying any doubles, without a doubt. The P in asap means possible. Good buoyancy and other skills are of course necessary before that would be possible.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

So I take it that you are solo diving with your CCR and now you want some sunshine about how that is not a problem?

If you want to be a good, safe solo diver (almost a contradiction in terms, however) you really need to be on open circuit. Then there is "less" that can go wrong. And then when something does go wrong, hopefully you can see it coming and deal with it, rather than be knocked unconscious by surprise, as with a CCR.

Just because you have been getting away with "doing something" for a "long time" does not make you a rocket scientist. Nor safe at it.

Sorry Nereas, but you'll have to back up your claims before I can take you seriously. I feel much safer on a rebreather than I do on open circuit. Short of a COMPLETE loop failure, or co2 breakthrough (unlikely as I am adamant about changing sorb), I don't see how they are going to kill you. Know thy Po2 at all times. It's not rocket surgery..

It seems to me that your own fears of what you do not understand about rebreathers, is dictating your analogies and advice.

I am not trying to change your mind, just open it up a little. Ie.. If you get in a serious entanglement situation on OC while solo diving, you are running against the clock, your gas clock. Once it's out, it's out. Game over. Rebreathers buy you the time to get out of trouble, and allow you to optimise the gas for the depth and po2 required. Know thy Po2! Would you breathe a bottle of 32% Nitrox at 150ft? Same thing! Know thy Po2!

As for the OP, I would suggest that he go diving alot, don't worry about the doubles. Take a good advanced nitrox and deco procedures class (rent the doubles), learn to carry a stage, do more diving, then go to a SCR or CCR.

YMMV

Cheers

 

[PerroneFord]

since DIR is a specific type of cave-oriented open circuit protocol.

Oh boy...

 

[Meng_Tze]

So I take it that you are solo diving with your CCR and now you want some sunshine about how that is not a problem?

If you want to be a good, safe solo diver (almost a contradiction in terms, however) you really need to be on open circuit. Then there is "less" that can go wrong. And then when something does go wrong, hopefully you can see it coming and deal with it, rather than be knocked unconscious by surprise, as with a CCR.

Just because you have been getting away with "doing something" for a "long time" does not make you a rocket scientist. Nor safe at it.

Strong words Nereas. There is an argument to be made that when one reaches a certain level, does certain dives, diving solo works best. Just because people 'have been getting away with it' ( as you put it), could also mean they know what they are doing....?

I would be interested to see the data that backs up the 'solo is dangerous for CCR' claim.....

 

[jeandiver]

Er , don't forget something else here...
PRICE
OK , with all of the OC gear I have gotten over the last 2-3 years , I probably could have bought a Rebreather , but , oh well

Very good discussion guys.

But for now , us Old Blonde peeps with stick with their O/C. Need to look at Sidemount and then Scootering before I EVEN THINK about CCR/SCR stuffs.

Thanks!
Da Beano

P.S. Of course , if someone is asking about Rebreathers , maybe they are NOT WORRIED about price. And I know the O/C stuff adds up too , so maybe my point isn't valid anymore.
I sure see a lot more rebreathers in the caves these days though.
More power to them.

 

[SparticleBrane]

According to their profile this person has <50 dives. Why are we even discussing the merits of rebreather design? Shouldn't we instead be encouraging the OP to get loads of experience and years of diving, before even considering a rebreather?

Sounds like yet another case of "Too Far, Too Fast" to me...

 

[wedivebc]

According to their profile this person has <50 dives. Why are we even discussing the merits of rebreather design? Shouldn't we instead be encouraging the OP to get loads of experience and years of diving, before even considering a rebreather?

Sounds like yet another case of "Too Far, Too Fast" to me...

Some people do quite well on RBs with <50 dives. Don't have time to pick up any bad habits.

 

[padiscubapro]

According to their profile this person has <50 dives. Why are we even discussing the merits of rebreather design? Shouldn't we instead be encouraging the OP to get loads of experience and years of diving, before even considering a rebreather?

Sounds like yet another case of "Too Far, Too Fast" to me...

as a long time CCR instuctor/ IT I would rather take a diver with 50 dives over one with 500 or 5000..

Its much harder to train the experiened diver, they have way too many bad habits to break..

 

[Mr.X]

So I take it that you are solo diving with your CCR and now you want some sunshine about how that is not a problem?

If you want to be a good, safe solo diver (almost a contradiction in terms, however) you really need to be on open circuit. Then there is "less" that can go wrong. And then when something does go wrong, hopefully you can see it coming and deal with it, rather than be knocked unconscious by surprise, as with a CCR.

Just because you have been getting away with "doing something" for a "long time" does not make you a rocket scientist. Nor safe at it.

Sure. I&#8217;ve gone diving solo many a times on OC/CCR etc. There are instances where working/diving places you in solo situations. There have also been times where buddies & diving OC have been liabilities. Personally, I like a dive where I can make decisions for myself. In fact, the most scariest dives have always included other people in the scenario.

Having worked with rocket scientists, I won't get too deep, or intellectual regarding the realities of your statements. They are simply without the merit of real world experience. What I suggest you do is post your recommendations on the contentious RB world. I'll hazard to guess that you'd be asked to sit in a corner with the appropriate headwear. Solo, of course.

X

 

[PacketSniffer]

Wes,

It's a good question that you've asked. As you see, you've stirred quite a debate here.

If you've weighed all of the pros and cons for purchasing a rebreather against the type of diving that you'll be doing, then there is no reason why you can't go to a rebreather from where you're currently at.

However, keep in mind that diving a rebreather takes more discipline in maintenance and operation than open circuit. I say this because, when you actually start to dive the rebreather, you really need to be rock solid with your bouyancy, trim, comfort level, and panick button. The most important item to monitor on a RB is your PPO2. If you neglect that, the day would likely end tragically. On top of this vigilant monitoring, you'll have to contend with another air cell (counterlung(s)) to keep in check.

I don't know how well you dive at 50 dives. You could be rock solid at this point. But, in general, a transition to rebreathers will go more smoothly the more open circuit experience one has. No open circuit experience is ever "wasted". Read that sentence again. You will no doubt be using open circuit for bailout so you need to start with a good foundation.

Honestly, by your very question posed, you are probably at least six months out from a RB purchase/training. If really serious about it, you should start reading....as much as you can about rebreathers. Pickup "Mastering Rebreathers" and "Tek Closed Circuit Rebreather" here. Then, when done, head to RebreatherWorld and start reading the articles there. When done, keep reading on RebreatherWorld. When done, re-read it all again. ;-) Once you have somewhat of a grasp on RB operations, it's a good time to start thinking about which RB will fit your type of diving. There are lots of models to choose from. They all have quirks and faults. It is up to you to find the unit the best fits your style of diving with regard to the quirks. I would shy away from the units with systemic faults. If you spend enough time at RebreatherWorld, you'll learn of all of the faults of every unit. I implore you to do this. Your life hangs in the balance.

So, you've got a lot of work ahead of you. But, it is all very possible. Afterall, I'm living proof. Knowing the type of diving that had my interest, open circuit was seen as a penalty for me. So, like you, I was researching rebreathers at 50 dives. Today, I haven't regretted my decision to move to a CCR one bit. In fact, I've been on a natural high since getting onboard. It opens up so much more opportunity that it's crazy. I've done some really awesome dives; some that would be a logistical nightmare on open circuit. And once you have a solid foundation of diving your RB, you'll find it more safe. A CCR will definitely give you two things: choices of escape and time.

Don't listen to the wet blankets out there. If you're willing to devote the dedication of time and energy for maintenance and operation of a rebreather, go forth. Good luck.


PM me if you need help.