Skipping open circuit and going straight to CCR

[takez0]

This is my first post here. I've learned a ton on this board and I'm grateful for the insights you all provide.

I'm getting into technical diving and I'd like to jump straight into a CCR. Does the group see any benefit or hindrance in skipping open circuit tech training costs and equipment costs and going straight into a CCR? CCR's are obviously an investment. I'd rather not spend money on a new BCD, manifold, tanks, etc., that would only be used specifically for dual-tank open circuit, considering I know where I want to end up already. Let me know your thoughts or if you think this is missed training opportunity.

 

[Wibble]

Do you know any local CCR divers that are willing to facilitate, encourage and nurture your knowledge and inexperience once you’re certified MOD 1? Do you have the mental and physical discipline to see the training process through? Are you meticulous to the extreme when it comes to maintenance? Can you afford the upkeep? I’ve met so many divers whose interest ebbs after a few seasons of technical diving. And that’s after they have spent the equivalent of a new car on equipment, training and logistics. If I were in your position today, I would skip the path to OC technical training and go straight to CCR. Provided you have selected the right CCR. That’s the catch 22. There is no learning curve. A myth perpetuated by technical instructors worldwide who dread and loathe nonconformists like you and I. Some of us are born to lead, some of us a born to hide.

Go dive. Do a lot of it. Practice your skills. Slowly improve. Slowly push your depth/gas/dives. Gain experience. Be self reliant.

The point of doing OC Technical training first is to give you the platform of skills to build upon.

And, most importantly, CCR diving is much harder than OC diving. There's much more that can and will go wrong. Only the diver diving it is responsible for monitoring the unit at all times.

 

[mr_v]

@Wibble, I agree with your last statement in general, but I do not think that jumping to CCR is that big of a deal for a diver with a right mindset. The learning curve will be a bit more interesting. I'll grant that ;-)

 

[Wibble]

@Wibble, I agree with your last statement in general, but I do not think that jumping to CCR is that big of a deal for a diver with a right mindset. The learning curve will be a bit more interesting. I'll grant that ;-)

How do they know if they're the right mindset if they've not gone through the relatively easy OC training and development?

The more I dive, the more I know I don't know.

It scares me to think that I could have jumped straight to CCR; would I have then given up as I found it "too hard"?

Also, just to be clear, the main thing of having ANDP is to know the theory behind decompression and how to calculate it; how to use redundancy, e.g. shutdowns; how to do safe stage handling and no-tox drills: how to prep your kit including gas analysis. But most of all it's planning. Also, even with ANDP, you would have to have half decent core skills (finning, trim, buoyancy) simply to keep a decompression stop otherwise you'd fail.

It's not about depth and not even about helium, it's the practical skills and doing longer decompression dives within recreational depth limits.

 

[mr_v]

How do they know if they're the right mindset if they've not gone through the relatively easy OC training and development?

The more I dive, the more I know I don't know.

It scares me to think that I could have jumped straight to CCR; would I have then given up as I found it "too hard"?

Here is another way of thinking about trying expensive things, like CCR.

Option 1: Rent a unit. Cost ~$3K.

I know, it is hard, but it is possible. At the end of the course, you'll find out whether CCR is for you. If it is not, then you're out $3K and you've learned something.

Option 2: Buy a used unit. Cost $3.5K.

It will cost ~$3K to take a course and then, say $5K for a unit. So your total price up is $8K. If you don't like this option, then you're out $3K for training plus $500 for a unit that you'll be selling at a small loss.

Either way, you're basically paying for education. If you're serious about diving, then why not? A CCR with a single bailout is not that complex after the ~20 hours or so and you can learn all tech diving skills on it. Actually, you don't have to go with CCR or doubles - most tech diving skills are accessible to you on a single tank. The rest you can gain through MOD1-MOD2 experience and proactive training.

Btw, as you know, @Wibble, I am speaking from experience. Went from OC rec to CCR Cave in less than 1.5 years.

 

[Whitrzac]

How do they know if they're the right mindset if they've not gone through the relatively easy OC training and development?

The more I dive, the more I know I don't know.

It scares me to think that I could have jumped straight to CCR; would I have then given up as I found it "too hard"?

Also, just to be clear, the main thing of having ANDP is to know the theory behind decompression and how to calculate it; how to use redundancy, e.g. shutdowns; how to do safe stage handling and no-tox drills; how to prep your kit including gas analysis. But most of all it's planning. Also, even with ANDP, you would have to have half decent core skills (finning, trim, buoyancy) otherwise you'd fail.

It's not about depth and not even about helium, it's the practical skills and doing longer decompression dives within recreational depth limits.

Why do you need decompression planning, stage handling, no tox drills, etc for a mod0 class?

100ft and no deco limit and a minimum of 6 months and 30hrs before you can take the next class which teaches all those things.

Heck, it's faster to do an/dp first then do the ccr helitrox class. After an/dp there's no experience requirement other than 50 total dives(not deco dives)


Learn how to dive the rebreather, get experience, then add all the extras.


Nothing is more satisfying than watching a macho "I'm a trimix diver" face plant into the mud and flounder like day1 open water students

 

[BoltSnap]

Alaskan scuba dude reborn?

Lol, firmware update and they let it loose in the wild again

 

[Wibble]

Why do you need decompression planning, stage handling, no tox drills, etc for a mod0 class?

Because with a rebreather it's very easy to push the limits. How much gas have I got... umpteen hours worth.

But it's not just about deco procedures, it's getting the basics of oxygen theory out of the way along with all the planning & prep.

Not familiar with the term MOD0. MOD1 is the basic first-level CCR class that can certify you for one of three depths: 30m/100ft, 40m/132ft and 45m/150ft with helitrox. The latter will only be given to either exceptionally talented people or normal people who've got good ANDP skills.

Once you've got your MOD1 then you must put the hours in to really understand how your unit works. Then you'll have your scare where you got complacent and the unit tried to kill you. Not if, but when that happens -- if it's not happened yet, then it will...

The wonderful thing about CCR is how the hard limits of Open Circuit are all but eliminated. Why would you pay all that money for kit and training to mess around in shallow waters on short dives when you could be diving for hours? Even at 30m/100ft you can easily do a 90 mins on the bottom with a little deco. OK, that would be a fair amount of deco, but you get my point.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

Here is another way of thinking about trying expensive things, like CCR.

Option 1: Rent a unit. Cost ~$3K.

I know, it is hard, but it is possible. At the end of the course, you'll find out whether CCR is for you. If it is not, then you're out $3K and you've learned something.

You will not find out at the end of a Mod 1 course. If you are a somewhat competent single cylinder recreational OC diver, you can do ANDP, learn a lot and for the cost of a twinset, stage, and 10-15 beginner dives hit some really nice, reasonably low risk sites with 20 minutes of accelerated deco - and be completely happy with the tech-lite diving for the rest of your life.

On a a CCR, you can learn to dive the unit in two days. However, it will take you a full season to reach OC ANDP level dives if you already were a decent OC techie diver. You will be making a lot of silly dives just to learn the unit. And you can't do the easy "if it breathes, has some gas and if I analysed it it's fine" ANDP diving anymore - it's tricky to scale down CCR diving, there is no grabbing a twinset with 32%, it's always the full works.

How do they know if they're the right mindset if they've not gone through the relatively easy OC training and development?

I think the mindset is key and OC lets you test it. CCR doesn't really make much sense until you plan to regularly dive 40-50m+ sites. You need to test that you are happy with all the pre- and post-dive focus and with having 1:1+ minutes of deco overhead that could give you life-changing injuries.

Do you feel happy with having 30+ minutes of deco? I know someone who had no trouble with techie training (Fundies, ANDP etc.) but found out that he might not have the mindset for the actual diving. He had to sit out most dives on a techie ANDP-level liveaboard and is now back to basics to fight some inner demons before progressing further. I think it's better to test the mindset before committing yourself to a CCR.

 

[billgraham]

Nothing is more satisfying than watching a macho "I'm a trimix diver" face plant into the mud and flounder like day1 open water students

Pretty much everyone sucks at first. I certainly did. One thing I would mention is most of my friends had a scare right around the hundred hour mark so keep that in mind as you go forward from training.

 

[OceanOpportunity]

I’ve read lots of misunderstandings here about o2 only units. You do not spontaneously combust at 20’ depth. Oxygen exposure limits are dose dependent. If using a pO2 display and are trained in loop flushing techniques it’s very easy and reasonably safe to dive to 30’, and for very long dives.

For the RD1, which I invented, it was purpose built as a 5 hour duration rebreather. When diving a po2 if 1.0 bar, which is easy to do, you can dive it virtually all day. Every coastline in the world becomes an opportunity for unique long duration dive experiences.

Once understanding basic loop management, the unit can become a mCCR with a minor plumbing change. We have people diving them as mix units regularly.