Ontario Governing Body

[seahunter]

Why don't y'all move to Quebec?
They already have a government backed body there running the scuba divers 'cause the divers are so stupid they need a big brother (Joke. OK!). Of course, it all costs money and since the general taxpayer isn't interested, be prepared to decide between car insurance and a scuba diver licence! Every diver in Quebec must register, take a government course (beyond his agency course) and pay a fee to the government before he dives.

DBD's original idea was a VOLUNTARY membership in a DIVE STORE ORGANIZATION that sets standards for acceptable behavior. Divers would be encouraged to fraternize member stores. If they did a good job, soon divers would only go to those stores. Member stores that don't keep up can be dropped. Non-member stores can be listed.
Now that's a good idea, not new nor even novel, but good!

Over the years several dive store owners have tried with mixed (usually not good) success to set up such a system. Wayne Crowley, Al Lambert, myself, Gerry Lowden and others. We never got enough support to make it work over the long run but it was always beneficial. Today it might be easier. There are fewer stores and the owners are somewhat more business-like. Additionally we have the internet as a great tool to use.

What areas of the sport would you suggest such an organization should try to improve?

 

[mglasspo]

I hadn't heard of this until recently, does this affect Ontario divers on the Quebec side?

 

[divebuddydale]

mglasspo once bubbled...
I hadn't heard of this until recently, does this affect Ontario divers on the Quebec side?

I am not sure about the aditional training from the gov't, I must assume it is right. I know that any divers planning on diving in Quebec must buy the licence (kinda like a fishing licence, just a reason to take money), at least thats what I have been told.

Dale

 

[pufferfish]

divebuddydale once bubbled...
OUC would be a great org to get involved, however Fred was mentioning to me yesterday, that he heard they were in the midst of going Belly Up (Bankrupt).

From reading the history of the OUC it looks like their heyday was in the 70's. I don't think it would be such a bad thing if the OUC disappeared as then the Ontario dive industry will be faced with no longer having the option of using the OUC to test their air to substandard levels. They are doing a huge disservice to the dive community offering substandard testing and continuing to promote their services as accurate and reliable. The sooner they go the way of Eaton's the better. OUC should not be in the business of testing air. Leave it to the professionals to test our air not some guy with no credentials sitting in a trailor up in the woods.

As for a new body the only reason I can see to have some province wide standards association would be to enforce air standards and maybe promote Ontario as a dive destination.

All the rest such as training standards, equipment standards, etc. is best left for the agencies and LDS to look after. No we don't need a Quebec model to complicate things further =-)

OUC History

 

[Chet]

Great idea, but as Seahunter has said it has been tried before and it did not work. Still too many egos that need to go through the door.
PUFF, group that looks after air and government standards, good idea. Who do you suggest?
Be Safe
Chet

 

[divebuddydale]

pufferfish once bubbled...



As for a new body the only reason I can see to have some province wide standards association would be to enforce air standards and maybe promote Ontario as a dive destination.

All the rest such as training standards, equipment standards, etc. is best left for the agencies and LDS to look after. No we don't need a Quebec model to complicate things further =-)

OUC History

I disagree about leaving the training standards up to the agencies and LDS, we have done that and have a great degradation of quality in some shops. Plus standards for agency X may not be as good as standards for agency Y, etc..

I am not looking at a Government regulatory organization, I am looking for a Voluntary Organization, that LDS, INTSRUCTORS and STUDENTS can belong to, and they hand a sticker in their window (like the Better Business Bureau) and they are proud of it. Basically this affiliation would say... I WANT THE BEST FOR MY DIVERS.


DALE


p.s Yes there probably would have to be fees per year for the LDS & INSTRUCTORS (Minimal, just to cover the cost of the org's ioffice expenses, mailing , not salarys)

 

[Marvintpa]

And who would govern this governing body?

The LDS owners? They have demonstrated a affinity for political in-fighting, and near zero levels of cooperation.

The students? Frankly, they know nothing (relatively speaking, that's why they're students) and would be underqualified.

Instructors? If you're saying some are unfit to teach then they're certainly unfit to govern.

The provincial government? Quabec has just demonstrated how much of a disaster that is. Who says they would introduce only the regulations you WANT and not something of their own uneducated contrivance?

The federal government? Quite frankly they don't care. This is not a federal matter and they'd push it to the provincial level in a heartbeat.

I find this entire thread to be a waste of electrons. I suggest you compare scuba to other industries before saying that it has gone bad.

 

[pufferfish]

divebuddydale once bubbled...
,.....I am not looking at a Government regulatory organization, I am looking for a Voluntary Organization, that LDS, INTSRUCTORS and STUDENTS can belong to, and they hand a sticker in their window (like the Better Business Bureau) and they are proud of it. Basically this affiliation would say... I WANT THE BEST FOR MY DIVERS.

Dale I wonder if that is what the OUC did in its heyday. I haven't been around this industry long enough to know but from reading the history it looks like there was a vision at the OUC as you describe and a group of people willing to implement this in the past. Maybe one of the dive 'oldies' on the board who saw the originals and not reruns of Sea Hunt can tell us how the OUC was seen by divers in 60s and 70s. People don't drift away from organizations, agencies, or LDSs for no good reason. When a critical mass of high quality people with good ideas congregrate good things happen. When the leaders leave things fall apart.

Maybe you should look at what the OUC did do right and why they failed and go from there. My first request in any new voluntary organization would be no inhouse air testing even if the $$ are needed.

Unfortunately I would tend to agree with Marvintpa here. Don't want to be a pessimist but you know what is the defintion of a pessimist?

A. An optimist with experience

 

[pufferfish]

From the OUC info pamphlet

"The OUC representing Scuba divers in Ontario.
The OUC is the largest organization representing scuba divers in Ontario. We include sport divers, scuba instructors, dive retailers and charter boat operators across the province. We are committed to promoting safe diving, environmental awareness, continuing education and self-governance."

Dale sounds like a great vision statement. I'd say a post-mortem needs to be done before going forward and trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

[mglasspo]

Well, I can say that I was unaware until a few days ago about this. It should be advertised you need to get a QC license to dive in Quebec. Because of that, I'm staying away. I'm not paying for another card to put in my wallet, it gives me nothing extra, no extra training, no extra safety factor. It's not like a DAN membership where you get something out of it. It's garbage.

*rant finished Mike can continue talking normally*

This is obviously a good idea gone astray. I agree that a BBB for diving is a good thing to have, in fact, I think we already have it. Doesn't both PADI and NAUI have facility ratings?