Only get one chance to start this fascinating sport....

[fins wake]

This thread seems to have taken on a life of it's own.....

Now that is a typical troll comment. (Trolls like to set off threads on odd or silly topics and just watch what happens.)

Actually, most threads will take on a life of their own after a while.

 

[deepblueh2o]

If you dive CCR 2 things will more than likely happen. You will do some type of deco diving with gas mixes that are OC, and you will probably run into an OC bailout of some kind.
Doubtfull that you could evade knowing OC even if you tried. If it's not part of your system it will be part of someone elses.
# of dives does not equal experience, we all know that. Non of us would allow someone else to tell us how to dive our units. So where do we get off telling others? Wasn't it the IANTD founder who said that if you get to this level you've earned the right to get yourself killed?

 

[zeN||]

Found it interesting while researching training and costs for rebreathers, that except for deeper compression dives I found no requirements that you had to have extensive training in scuba prior to learning these systems proficiently Z

 

[fins wake]

I found no requirements that you had to have extensive training in scuba prior to learning these systems proficiently

Training in OC scuba, you mean. SC and CC is still scuba ...

Depends on one's definition of extensive training. Yes, it's possible to start training on e.g. a Dräger with less than 20 dives, theoretically even 14 dives would be the minimum ... It's theoretically even possible to start training on, say, an Inspiration or KISS (HSE-approved course) with around 35 dives.

Note that this would require passing several diving courses, one after the other, and none of them necessarily easy by themselves! (E.g. AOW and EanX for PADI Dräger Diver; Basic Nitrox, Deep Diver and Advanced Nitrox for IANTD Module 1 or similar KISS ...) So you would have to be a reasonably proficient diver at least for the CCR courses ...

And of course, most RB students have many more dives before they attempt the courses.

I agree 14 dives would not be extensive, but it's still some OC OW training. On the other hand, you'd really have to have a special game plan to go SCR diver whilst still a newbie, or to go CCR diving with only 35-odd dives under the belt. Most divers will dive a hundred or more dives before they even see the need for a rebreather. But if you see the need, and have a game plan that you are able to fulfil, why not? You still have to pass the RB-instructor's requirements ...

Extensive training in OC techniques is not the important factor. Learning and mastering your rebreather is.

(But again, I think for most divers the way to go initially is through OC diving just for the underwater experience ... )

EDIT: additions and change of '13' to '14'

 

[padiscubapro]

zeN|| once bubbled...
Found it interesting while researching training and costs for rebreathers, that except for deeper compression dives I found no requirements that you had to have extensive training in scuba prior to learning these systems proficiently Z

the requirements vary from agency to agency but all that is necessary is some basic scuba skills and confort in the water..

From experience it is much easier training a new diver than someone who is well seasoned.. the longer the person has been diving the more bad habits that have to be broken, plus they are much more likely to accept the fact they are now a beginner and stay within their new certification limits.

The "advanced" CCR classes generally have some experience required on the specific unit.. IANTD (last time I checked) required the diver to have open circuit cert for the CCR level they want to obtain.. ANDI does not(require the oc cert) but allows all advanced training to be done on a CCR. This does not mean there are less dives required just that ALL the dives are now done on a CCR instead of first oc the CCR. Since the only real gas limits are the bailout that can be carried, most divers actually get more time at depth during training.

 

[caveseeker7]

Now if there is one thing that makes me feel like an old geezer it's OW certification. I did mine in '83, it took a week of my vacation. we needed 15 dives to get the little card (actually a passport-like booklet with 4 pages ). These days, it's a bit of pool and class time and if I remember right 4 dives. Around here in SoCal that means 2 each from the beach and a boat. We can probably all agree that what you get is a learner's permit at best ...

So xCR training is much better, much more in depth. Just about any course I know of recaps EANx diving anyway, and most instructors let you do both cards in one course. I'm wondering, how hard can it be to suck on a second stage? The important thing, 'keep breathing', is the same. As long as you know your tank's gonna be empty a lot sooner OC, than xC you have a lot already figured out.
So OW on an SCR shouldn't be a problem at all. Which is probably why it has been done already, as mentioned somewhere in this thread. I've got that German mag somewhere in my boxes (just moved), it was an intresting idea and worked. The two 'test pilots' liked their Drägers much better than OC.
I think it's comparable with getting your OW in a drysuit. Some places call it advanced, want your to take your OW and AOW first, others do it without thinking twice. It isn't really that big of a deal, and neither are SCRs. A bit more pre- and post dive preperation with a lot more importance, a few more things to learn and do UW, like checking loop integrity or a flush. I'm sure most students could do it just fine, especially if they have a week to learn it all.
CCRs on the other hand are quite a bit more involved, more data to digest and actions to take. I can see how task loading can be too much for a novice on a CCR. Mixing manually while monitoring the gauges, worrying about your bouyancy and being afraid of the upcoming mask clearing ... maybe not the greatest idea. I believe any diving that entails hypoxic mixes should be far enough down the line that students can give the breathing mix their full attention, rather than worry about buyoncy, ascent rate, or just being UW. And yes, I'm aware that the SCR can be overbreathed to hypoxic levels, and that new divers frequently, if not always have a high breathing rate. But on an SCR that's easier managable than the manual mixing on a CCR.