On what it is like to be a new diver

[Neilwood]

As a pretty new diver myself, I think there is responsibility all round to try to ensure the best training.

As a student , try to get the best you can (for the money). Ask a few questions if possible of the general policies such as whether skills are taught with neutral bouyancy or kneeling etc. It is hard for most people new to this to know what makes a good instructor without hindsight

As instructors, they should be trying to provide the best for the students to encourage them to keep diving and doing it safely - not what gets them through the course quickest or gets them the best commission on sales of goods.

Shops - don't push the "high profit" equipment if it isn't best for the diver. It will put them off diving and in particular your shop if they come to realise it. Ask questions about what diving they are doing/going to do and equip them properly from there.

Agencies - should be pushing the safest/best methods such as neutral buoyancy etc.

I definitely got lucky with my instructor (and doubly so as I was doing my course 1-1 with him so had full attention at all times). He (with hindsight) did train me well instilling neutral buoyancy and trim from early on. Because of the 1-1 nature I could ask any questions that came into my head at any time. At no time was any brand of equipment pushed on me (despite the fact that he actually manages the entire operation and could have pushed me in a certain direction). In fact it was the ability to see a few different configurations of equipment during the course that spurred my subsequent gear choices.

 

[Hawkwood]

Jim, I'm sorry, but I think I have to disagree with you on this. I do absolutely agree that the individual instructor can make a difference, but you have to be reasonably practical here. I am one of a bunch of instructors associated with the shop with which I work. I just got my spring schedule earlier today. If someone wants to interview me to see if I am good enough to teach the class that is scheduled on the time slot when they want to take the class, how are they going to do that? I will be in Florida for two months prior to my first scheduled class. Am I supposed to fly back to Colorado to meet a prospective student to see if that student, in his or her infinite wisdom and ability to discern instructor competence, deems me competent enough to teach the most basic class in scuba instruction? Even if I am in town, do you really think anything valuable is going to happen? Do you really think that this student has the ability to choose the instructor so well that he or she is going to make an intelligent choice? Is the shop management going to call all the instructors for this shop in for a lineup so that this discerning student can select the best of the lot, like some sort of a bizarre Miss Universe contest? It's not going to happen, and calling for students to do something like that is like calling for them to find a unicorn.

Nice post John.

I wasted a bunch of time last night trying to contact my 8 students for my class this week. Our policy is to contact the students before class to "interview" them. Talk about expectations, what they need to do before class, answer questions they may have so far, etc. I could not get a hold of any of them. Had to leave voice messages. Finally just sent an email to them. Up to them now.

Not everyone is the "theoretical" SB student or SB instructor.

 

[Skeptic14]

Prior to my OW class the thought never crossed my mind that I should interview my instructor. I figured I was signing up for the most basic of training available for diving and I suppose my expectations matched this reality.

I never felt that for this most basic level of training there needed to be nuanced and high fidelity in discerning if my instructor was acceptable.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

How hard is it to set up a meet the instructor night? With the caveat that it's required to begin the course? For me doing this allows me to make an in person assessment of the potential diver. Possibly heading off problems. It also puts them in the shop another time where I have the chance to go over the items they may wish to purchase before starting the class itself. One area that this has really helped in is making sure they are not going to have a mask that is constantly fogging in that first session. Another is being able to go over the med statement and give them a chance to get cleared if necessary. I can't and won't take them in the pool if they need to get one. Not good to find out they need one just as you're about to get in the water. If they really want to learn to dive they will make time to come in. As should the instructor if they really want to teach. It's also not fun to set up the first class and have the student show up without something they need. A meet and greet before allows me to go over the learning agreement and give them a written list of what is required for class. It helps to head off problems as well when they show up with a completed medical with all no's and yet they get winded walking in from the parking lot. Another area is it allows me to find out if there are going to be learning challenges, personality issues, or (with couples) communication issues. It doesn't have to take hours and hours. But it can reduce or eliminate many problems before they even start. Like not being able to get a response from students when you need to. They know up front that this is a major part of good instruction. Being able to communicate on every level of it. In the water and out of it.

 

[boulderjohn]

How hard is it to set up a meet the instructor night? With the caveat that it's required to begin the course? For me doing this allows me to make an in person assessment of the potential diver. Possibly heading off problems. It also puts them in the shop another time where I have the chance to go over the items they may wish to purchase before starting the class itself. One area that this has really helped in is making sure they are not going to have a mask that is constantly fogging in that first session. Another is being able to go over the med statement and give them a chance to get cleared if necessary. I can't and won't take them in the pool if they need to get one. Not good to find out they need one just as you're about to get in the water. If they really want to learn to dive they will make time to come in. As should the instructor if they really want to teach. It's also not fun to set up the first class and have the student show up without something they need. A meet and greet before allows me to go over the learning agreement and give them a written list of what is required for class. It helps to head off problems as well when they show up with a completed medical with all no's and yet they get winded walking in from the parking lot. Another area is it allows me to find out if there are going to be learning challenges, personality issues, or (with couples) communication issues. It doesn't have to take hours and hours. But it can reduce or eliminate many problems before they even start. Like not being able to get a response from students when you need to. They know up front that this is a major part of good instruction. Being able to communicate on every level of it. In the water and out of it.

Of course we have something like this, Jim. The students come in and have an initial meeting, get the required equipment and paperwork done, etc. But that is after the student has selected the class session dates and been assigned to an instructor. Do you think anything is going to happen in that session that is going to make the student stand up and say, "Whoa! Hold on! I demand a different instructor!" Do you think the student is going to cancel all plans for the class because the student can see from those activities that instructor does not meet the criteria the student does not even know exists? Is the student going to ask to change to a class instructed by some other unknown instructor instead?

The student has the right to do all of that now, and to my knowledge it has never happened.

 

[Neilwood]

How hard is it to set up a meet the instructor night? With the caveat that it's required to begin the course? For me doing this allows me to make an in person assessment of the potential diver. Possibly heading off problems. It also puts them in the shop another time where I have the chance to go over the items they may wish to purchase before starting the class itself. One area that this has really helped in is making sure they are not going to have a mask that is constantly fogging in that first session. Another is being able to go over the med statement and give them a chance to get cleared if necessary. I can't and won't take them in the pool if they need to get one. Not good to find out they need one just as you're about to get in the water. If they really want to learn to dive they will make time to come in. As should the instructor if they really want to teach. It's also not fun to set up the first class and have the student show up without something they need. A meet and greet before allows me to go over the learning agreement and give them a written list of what is required for class. It helps to head off problems as well when they show up with a completed medical with all no's and yet they get winded walking in from the parking lot. Another area is it allows me to find out if there are going to be learning challenges, personality issues, or (with couples) communication issues. It doesn't have to take hours and hours. But it can reduce or eliminate many problems before they even start. Like not being able to get a response from students when you need to. They know up front that this is a major part of good instruction. Being able to communicate on every level of it. In the water and out of it.

I never met my instructor until the morning I arrived for the course. Given that I chose to do my course 100 miles away from my home that shouldn't be a surprise. I chose the dive school I did for the option of doing it 1-1 during the day when I was on a weeks leave that I had from work and not because of any particular idea of what a good or bad dive school was. I had spoken to the shop for a grand total of about 10-15 minutes over the phone prior to that (of which I probably spoke to the instructor for less than 5 of those). At no point was it ever thought of for either party to meet up prior to the course starting. We probably did the "sizing each other up" bit at the start of the first morning while doing the paperwork/theory.

There is the "ideal world" idea of what should happen and there is the reality of circumstances.

 

[2airishuman]

Are you being facetious, or have you been infected so quickly with the SB bias? (It took me a few years to become infected.) In the real world (not SB) these are popular items. I refuse to use disparaging terms like "poodle jacket" for something that is practically the global standard. "Split fins" is a SB meme, nothing more.

I'm using those as a metaphor for positional goods.

All retail shops like to have similar products at varying price points. That makes sense for the consumer only when there is a cost-driven difference in the usefulness of the items. One LDS near me has a display of around eight regulator sets with prices ranging from around $600 up to $2000. Aside from the cheaper ones perhaps lacking an environmental seal, there is no difference in utility between the cheapest and most costly -- and they're all more expensive than what I ended up with. Yes, it's the way business is done, no, that doesn't mean I have to like it.

The range of prices for jacket-style BCDs was not as wide in part because the shop has to stock multiple sizes, but again, there is little difference in utility among the various price points.

---------- Post added January 5th, 2016 at 12:32 PM ----------

How hard is it to set up a meet the instructor night? With the caveat that it's required to begin the course? For me doing this allows me to make an in person assessment of the potential diver. Possibly heading off problems. It also puts them in the shop another time where I have the chance to go over the items they may wish to purchase before starting the class itself. One area that this has really helped in is making sure they are not going to have a mask that is constantly fogging in that first session. Another is being able to go over the med statement and give them a chance to get cleared if necessary. I can't and won't take them in the pool if they need to get one. Not good to find out they need one just as you're about to get in the water. If they really want to learn to dive they will make time to come in. As should the instructor if they really want to teach. It's also not fun to set up the first class and have the student show up without something they need. A meet and greet before allows me to go over the learning agreement and give them a written list of what is required for class. It helps to head off problems as well when they show up with a completed medical with all no's and yet they get winded walking in from the parking lot. Another area is it allows me to find out if there are going to be learning challenges, personality issues, or (with couples) communication issues. It doesn't have to take hours and hours. But it can reduce or eliminate many problems before they even start. Like not being able to get a response from students when you need to. They know up front that this is a major part of good instruction. Being able to communicate on every level of it. In the water and out of it.

To be fair, the shop I worked with did this, but not with my instructor. They asked me to come in so they could pass judgment on the quality of my mask, snorkel, and fins, go over the medical form, and have me take a test so that they could ascertain whether I really did the on-line class or just watched cat videos the whole time. The proprietor of the shop did this, and also did some equipment familiarization. While it wasn't on the official agenda, I am certain that an informal evaluation of my physical fitness, verbal communication skills, and attitude also took place.

 

[DevonDiver]

Which would make the typical and very common advice of "it's not the class, it's the instructor" AKA "just find a good instructor", to become completely irrelevant. How are you going to "find a good instructor" if you can't even know who it is until you arrive at the pool?...

Offer politely to take your custom elsewhere.

Trust me, it's a buyer's market...

 

[fjpatrum]

I'm out of OW for a few years now but still a newb diver. My take on this is not popular here on SB but the reality is, the OW book knowledge can be taught by a monkey. No instructor required, for the most part. The skills, similarly, don't take rocket science to figure out but having a competent diver show them to you can help tremendously. What would be better is to video every new diver and give them visual feedback on how THEY are doing to help improve skills immediately. Almost everyone thinks they are doing better at a given skill than they really are. Add one session of 30 minutes for the divers to go over their own performance at the end of each pool session and you have a lot of real-world feedback that is more valuable than any single instructor, no matter how good.

It's not the instructor that makes an OW class quality (though it makes a difference). What really matters, though, is the student's willingness to learn, which is the case in almost every single educational situation there is. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, but as a blanket statement, I'll take a motivated student over a "good" instructor any time for OW course.

 

[DevonDiver]

I never met my instructor until the morning I arrived for the course. Given that I chose to do my course 100 miles away from my home that shouldn't be a surprise.....There is the "ideal world" idea of what should happen and there is the reality of circumstances.

Does the company have a website?

On that website, do they publish detailed instructor bios? Do they publish any kind of instructional philosophy? Do they attempt to define or differentiate their service in any way?

Could they have offered you your instructor's email address, to allow some correspondence?

If not, why not?