On what it is like to be a new diver

[Neilwood]

There's the crux of the matter right there. We have this fantastic resource, SB, in which we can absorb the collective wisdom of highly experienced divers. But it isn't of interest to most divers. I think the System of shops and major-agency OW instructors who teach whirlwind courses, as full of potential conflict-of-interest as the System may be, serves most divers reasonably well. I think it's the way it is because economics and the desires and abilities of the average OW student dictate it. The low market price for an OW course has to be offset by gear sales, dive trips, etc. As far as I know, statistics bear out that "be back on the boat with 500 psi" is not resulting in that many out-of-air incidents. That's not to say that improvement is impossible--inroads are being made in some areas, such as the idea that students don't need to kneel on the bottom quite so much. But I doubt the System will change radically. It works well enough for the majority of divers to dive safely enough.

For those few prospective OW students who come across SB and find themselves agreeing with those who point out inadequacies in the System, there are alternatives to the System. There are instructors out there--some are on SB--who charge a little more but will gladly speak with the prospective student, will not try to tie the course to gear sales, will teach to high standards, cover proper buoyancy and trim and real gas planning, etc. The course may take more days than a typical OW course. Those instructors may not be local to the prospective student, adding to the cost, of course. But this alternative to the System that mass-produces minimally competent new divers IS available to those few to whom it appeals. One just has to pay for it.

Agreed.

In particular about the "back on the boat with 500psi", this does work and I would not be surprised if a lot of the OOA incidents are due to inattention rather than an equipment issue.

Yes the system isn't perfect (nothing is) but it does work for the "herd" (which is probably about 90% of divers). Some people go past the herd mentality (and end up here) and can take their training further

 

[Sevenrider860]

My confined water dives were with a shop that also offers TDI courses, something I'd looked for since I was trying to get a more analytical, "thinking diver" approach to the activity. But the OWD instructor assigned to me, though very good at teaching basic skills, had no background or interest in tech diving. I asked questions about gas planning and rock bottom calculations and he looked at me like I was from another planet and said his usual approach was to end a dive at 500-600 PSI.

If you took a PADI course, I don't believe it was glossed over to that extent. The PADI OW manual has an example of gas planning in the section titled "Managing your air supply as a buddy team". This example is not simply "end the dive at 500 to 600 psi". It describes reserve and turn pressures and provides an example of the math involved to calculate them. The knowledge review also has a problem where you calculate turn pressure based on 1/3 available gas after you have removed your reserve and planned safety stop gas supply. "Rock Bottom" is not a term used in the PADI materials and I would not expect every instructor to know this. There is a discussion of reserve and available gas supply, an example of how gas planning calculations are performed and a knowledge review question on the subject. For new recreational divers I personally think this works. To be honest, I am more concerned with my OW students learning and exhibiting excellent gas awareness than correctly calculating a turn pressure using 1/3 of the available gas supply minus reserves.

You said your OW instructor had no background or interest in tech diving and that is not a surprise to me. In a shop with 4 instructors and 2 Course Directors I am the only instructor with tech certifications or who performs any technical diving. If technical diving is your interest and future goal, then you should seek out an instructor with a technical background. That may mean you need to change your schedule to match the instructor's schedule...or even be willing to pay extra for private instruction to meet your scheduling needs.

I am not sure what you mean by "thinking diver approach". Do you mean you wanted more time spent on the physics of diving or the physiology of diving?

I appreciate you outlining your experience and what you took away from it. I am curious, did you have an opportunity to talk with your fellow OW students and did they have similar take-aways from their OW experience?

 

[AdivingBel]

There's the crux of the matter right there. We have this fantastic resource, SB, in which we can absorb the collective wisdom of highly experienced divers. But it isn't of interest to most divers. I think the System of shops and major-agency OW instructors who teach whirlwind courses, as full of potential conflict-of-interest as the System may be, serves most divers reasonably well. I think it's the way it is because economics and the desires and abilities of the average OW student dictate it. The low market price for an OW course has to be offset by gear sales, dive trips, etc. As far as I know, statistics bear out that "be back on the boat with 500 psi" is not resulting in that many out-of-air incidents. That's not to say that improvement is impossible--inroads are being made in some areas, such as the idea that students don't need to kneel on the bottom quite so much. But I doubt the System will change radically. It works well enough for the majority of divers to dive safely enough.

For those few prospective OW students who come across SB and find themselves agreeing with those who point out inadequacies in the System, there are alternatives to the System. There are instructors out there--some are on SB--who charge a little more but will gladly speak with the prospective student, will not try to tie the course to gear sales, will teach to high standards, cover proper buoyancy and trim and real gas planning, etc. The course may take more days than a typical OW course. Those instructors may not be local to the prospective student, adding to the cost, of course. But this alternative to the System that mass-produces minimally competent new divers IS available to those few to whom it appeals. One just has to pay for it.

Well said, Zoid. There are options for additional training that don't necessarily require another card. Structure is nice, but attention from a good instructor and desire on the part of the student go a long way.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Agreed.

In particular about the "back on the boat with 500psi", this does work and I would not be surprised if a lot of the OOA incidents are due to inattention rather than an equipment issue.

Yes the system isn't perfect (nothing is) but it does work for the "herd" (which is probably about 90% of divers). Some people go past the herd mentality (and end up here) and can take their training further

Most ... by a very wide margin ... are due to inattention. This is why it's important to be proactive by determining, prior to the dive, that you are carrying an adequate supply for your dive plan. But then most casual divers don't make a dive plan, other than simply planning to follow a guide and hoping for the best ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

The PADI OW manual has an example of gas planning in the section titled "Managing your air supply as a buddy team". This example is not simply "end the dive at 500 to 600 psi". It describes reserve and turn pressures and provides an example of the math involved to calculate them. The knowledge review also has a problem where you calculate turn pressure based on 1/3 available gas after you have removed your reserve and planned safety stop gas supply.

I just wanted to pull out part of this fine post to emphasize that the latest PADI curriculum has much more about gas management than the old one.

 

[htatton]

There's the crux of the matter right there. We have this fantastic resource, SB, in which we can absorb the collective wisdom of highly experienced divers. But it isn't of interest to most divers. I think the System of shops and major-agency OW instructors who teach whirlwind courses, as full of potential conflict-of-interest as the System may be, serves most divers reasonably well. I think it's the way it is because economics and the desires and abilities of the average OW student dictate it. The low market price for an OW course has to be offset by gear sales, dive trips, etc. As far as I know, statistics bear out that "be back on the boat with 500 psi" is not resulting in that many out-of-air incidents. That's not to say that improvement is impossible--inroads are being made in some areas, such as the idea that students don't need to kneel on the bottom quite so much. But I doubt the System will change radically. It works well enough for the majority of divers to dive safely enough.

I agree with this statement. It is true in almost all endeavors. I spend the first years of my adult life teaching chemistry in high school and I was always amazed that there were 80% who wanted to pass the test and 20% who wanted to understand chemistry. I believe those who want to understand diving and become excellent divers will find a way. Scubaboard is just one of the resources available. I have searched out the best instructors I could find, read 20 or so books and hang our on this board as often and I can. I'm old, a little fat, and absolutely dedicated to becoming an excellent diver. It take dedicated instructors and serious students to find excellence. My C card just became a license to practice and learn. I hope to get to dive with some of you one day.