On what it is like to be a new diver

[boulderjohn]

If a shop will not let you interview the instructor you are going to have- find another shop. That is complete and total bull crap. The first thing to remember is that when you sign up for classes, as the consumer you have the final say over who teaches you. Or you can, and perhaps should, take your money elsewhere.

This is one of the reasons I put an entire chapter in my book on choosing an instructor and one on choosing a shop. What you are actually doing when you sign up for classes is HIRING someone to teach you how to dive. You are, in effect, hiring an employee. New divers need to have this in their mind when signing up for a class. I don't take a cent from anyone until they have had a chance to interview me personally.

You have to ask why would a shop not allow you to interview the person you are trusting with your life and maybe that of your family? That person is the one who is going to minimize the risk to your safety, security, and perhaps financial stability by teaching you how not to get hurt or worse underwater. Why can't you talk to them? They can show up for a class right? They can show up early or stay over to talk to a new potential student.

When you fill out that paperwork and hand over the check, cash, or credit card they now work for you. Not for the shop. If they don't have that view - RUN AWAY!

Jim, I'm sorry, but I think I have to disagree with you on this. I do absolutely agree that the individual instructor can make a difference, but you have to be reasonably practical here. I am one of a bunch of instructors associated with the shop with which I work. I just got my spring schedule earlier today. If someone wants to interview me to see if I am good enough to teach the class that is scheduled on the time slot when they want to take the class, how are they going to do that? I will be in Florida for two months prior to my first scheduled class. Am I supposed to fly back to Colorado to meet a prospective student to see if that student, in his or her infinite wisdom and ability to discern instructor competence, deems me competent enough to teach the most basic class in scuba instruction? Even if I am in town, do you really think anything valuable is going to happen? Do you really think that this student has the ability to choose the instructor so well that he or she is going to make an intelligent choice? Is the shop management going to call all the instructors for this shop in for a lineup so that this discerning student can select the best of the lot, like some sort of a bizarre Miss Universe contest? It's not going to happen, and calling for students to do something like that is like calling for them to find a unicorn.

 

[TMHeimer]

I tend to agree with John. My mom set me up with clarinet lessons at age 8. Neither she nor I knew if this teacher was good. He was pretty good, looking back, but in H.S. (when I became serious about music), someone referred me to another teacher, who was considered the best around (which I think was true). Same thing with scuba. When I took OW I had no idea what to look for in an instructor--no idea or preference for kneeling or neutral. So you read the book ahead of time and see there are skills. You figure they're the requirements regardless of who the instructor is. So you sign up. You MAY have some intelligent questions to ask a shop about the course and instructor beforehand if you research scuba, or have been on SB for years. Not the majority for sure.

 

[BRT]

Take the class and get your OW card. Then you have the choice of diving like a Discover Scuba first timer or learn how to actually dive. The info is out there if you want it.

 

[2airishuman]

If a shop will not let you interview the instructor you are going to have- find another shop. That is complete and total bull crap. The first thing to remember is that when you sign up for classes, as the consumer you have the final say over who teaches you. Or you can, and perhaps should, take your money elsewhere.

The story stayed the same at the shops I spoke with both here (for the confined water dives) and in Key West (for the open water ones).

It isn't so much that the shops "will not let me" interview an instructor. It is, in reality I think, that they don't know who is scheduled for which time slots, and they do not pay their instructors to be part of the process of recruiting and scheduling students.

This is one of the reasons I put an entire chapter in my book on choosing an instructor and one on choosing a shop. What you are actually doing when you sign up for classes is HIRING someone to teach you how to dive. You are, in effect, hiring an employee. New divers need to have this in their mind when signing up for a class. I don't take a cent from anyone until they have had a chance to interview me personally.

You have to ask why would a shop not allow you to interview the person you are trusting with your life and maybe that of your family? That person is the one who is going to minimize the risk to your safety, security, and perhaps financial stability by teaching you how not to get hurt or worse underwater. Why can't you talk to them? They can show up for a class right? They can show up early or stay over to talk to a new potential student.

When you fill out that paperwork and hand over the check, cash, or credit card they now work for you. Not for the shop. If they don't have that view - RUN AWAY!

In the abstract I think this is good advice. Part of the reason for my original post is to point out that this advice does not fit well with the instructional offerings that are readily available.

---------- Post added January 4th, 2016 at 08:47 PM ----------

Take the class and get your OW card. Then you have the choice of diving like a Discover Scuba first timer or learn how to actually dive. The info is out there if you want it.

That is what I am doing.

That I have to, says something about the state of affairs in diving instruction.

 

[pinshootr]

I find it strange that of all the dive shops you called none had an instructor available. Here in MI most shops are owned by an instructor and most of the instructors work at the shop. pool sessions are set-up in advance and mostly months in advance so a set schedule is usually posted. I agree class room sessions are much better, but you also have to understand you are taking a basic OW class, not an advanced nitro/deco class, those come later as most agencies require a minimum amount of OPEN WATER DIVES to advance to the next level. Of course most dive shops are trying to sell you gear!!! there is no money in just teaching classes!!! Do a poll and see how many instructors are actually making a living out of just teaching!! Just my observations i'm not an instructor I am going thru my Dive Master Training at my local shop.

 

[2airishuman]

I find it strange that of all the dive shops you called none had an instructor available.

The question I always asked was whether I could speak with the person who would actually be teaching the class I was going to take.

I think the shops were by and large owned by instructors, and capable ones at that. But they're not the ones teaching most of the classes.

there is no money in just teaching classes!!! Do a poll and see how many instructors are actually making a living out of just teaching!!

Part of the problem, I guess. No point in teaching when there are commissions to be earned selling split fins, pink snorkels, and poodle jackets.

 

[TMHeimer]

I never thought to ask at our shop, but I don't think the retail folks get commissions for sales. I believe they get at straight salary. Some also often teach/DM courses, some rarely do.

 

[pinshootr]

Correct again TMHeimer no commissions just discounts on gear we buy!! So yes when you walk in with your craigslist/online gear were not going to be to eager to fix it when it falls apart or breaks. And the liability of letting you use it during a class is another issue if it's not been serviced recently. I know my local shop would not let you use it for class!!!! Thats why we provide the gear for your class so we know it's been serviced and in good working order.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

That's another load of crap. Any competent shop could take 5 minutes and determine if the gear a student shows up with is safe. If someone buys used gear on line from Craigslist and its the brand I sell, damn right I'll check it out and service it with a smile. Just as if they bought it from me. Same price for parts and labor. Why? Because the next time they need gear they are more likely to buy it from me now. If they don't? Oh well, I'll still see them for service and likely more training since they now know I'm not a jerk about such things. I also won't lie about liability to keep them using gear I sell. Why would I insult a student's intelligence like that? It is very likely that it's the gear they will be using after class. I have an ethical and moral obligation to train them in it so they are safe.

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[Lorenzoid]

Is it important to interview an instructor before taking a basic OW class? The courses are pretty standardized these days. The whole "interview the instructor" thing is borrowed from the tech diving world, and even then, has its origins in an era before tech courses became as standardized as they are now and when fewer people were doing that kind of diving. Questions like "what equipment configuration do you teach," "how long have you been teaching this course," "what kind of diving do you do when you are not teaching and how many of those dives have you done," "what is your pass/fail rate," "do you have personal beliefs or standards apart from what your agency may require," and so forth, made sense and may still make sense for prospective tech students to ask. The instructor's teaching style needs to be a good fit with the student's learning style, since a tech student is likely to take a progression of several courses from a single, selected instructor. The OW course is a stand-alone course that may be all that the average diver ever takes.

That said, I think it's laudable to want to speak--at least briefly--with a prospective OW instructor. It's a good idea in theory. It just may not be all that important or that easy in practice (due to scheduling, etc.). If one were to sign up for private one-on-one lessons with an instructor, I would absolutely expect the student to have the opportunity to speak with the instructor, as the student is presumably paying a premium for that privilege.

. . . split fins, pink snorkels, and poodle jackets.

Are you being facetious, or have you been infected so quickly with the SB bias? (It took me a few years to become infected.) In the real world (not SB) these are popular items. I refuse to use disparaging terms like "poodle jacket" for something that is practically the global standard. "Split fins" is a SB meme, nothing more.