Okay, the other side

[Ursus]

So, having thoroughly exhausted the segue, can we get back to the original topic? Anybody using sidemount who can pass along things they DON'T like about it?

I got into Sidemount as my configuration for doing tech diving in blue water. I am not a cave diver and therefore my configuration and concerns are a little different than some of those expressed by others. My experience has been short and intense courtesy of picking up sidemount at same time as completing tech40 - tech65 over past 4 months.

Upside:
1. Amazingly flexible gear configuration
2. Ease of equipment availability at any dive location
3. Modular system is easier. Although your total weight of gear is about same as backmount doubles, you can readily breakdown it into more managable loads...meaning less weight per trip but needing to make more trips to carry all the gear

Gear Configuration - Challenge:
1. Take a SM course...it will give you chance to try out several different harnesses and gear configurations before you commit funds or make a critical choice
2. Multiple options for configurations that all conform within the DIR concept - determining which is best for your dive style and profile is the bugger
3. Each harness system is slightly different - one person's advice on what is best may not work on your harness without making modifications. Carefully compare each different harnesses, because depending upon the setup the recommendations may not work or be best for your rig without modifying location/routing of hose, etc.
4. Pick a personal standard for how you will configure your regs (including hose length to 2nd stages) for your SM tanks as well as your stage/deco tanks. Start with tried-and-true setup that instructor recommends. That is the starting point and then then don't be affraid to tinker with it until you find what works best for you.
5. Pockets - either pockets that are affixed to wetsuit/dry suit or pocket shorts. I initially bought the accessory pockets from Diveright that clip to waistbelt and strap to thigh. At depth as my wetsuit compresses the thigh strap tends to slip. With the SM tanks and deco tanks in the way it is near impossible to adjust underwater and remains an annoyance throughout remainder of dive.


Gear Management - Challenge:
1. Attaching Primary tanks - takes some practice getting used to clipping the tanks on the rear rail with one hand. It is harder above water when gravity is pulling tank downward instead of on back angle. Worst case sceanrio is simply to clip tank to chest d-ring and sort out bottom clip in water. With practive it will get easier to find and clip to the rail and will learn how to hold and orient the swivel for best success above and below the water.
2. Attaching Deco/Stage tanks - primary sidemount tank tends to cover the hip d-ring. It will take a little practice to learn and be comfortable reaching down to clip...you literally have to hold the deco tanks lower clip in hand while sliding it down between your body and the primary SM tank and then flipping up the SM tank out of the way to access the hip d-ring. This isn't a strength exercise and doesn't require a lot of coordination, but rather just trial and error. Another trick is to make certain to fold the hip d-ring forward before putting on any tanks so that it is easier to get at by being 2" closer to your center.
3. Accessing Pockets - getting to thigh pockets is a litttle more challenging. You learn to bring your knee up bending your leg and reaching over the primary SM tanks. This said you are doing this by touch and not sight so best to have pockets that have some form of string or fixture built into them so that you can clip each item to it in case they spill out or that you don't fully fasten your pocket closed.

All of the above will be resolved with hands on experience and drills....not that big of deal.

Boat Diving - Challenges:
1. Wider Profile - makes entering and exiting the boat a little more challenging.
solution: Diver can strap on one of the SM tanks and enter the water and gear-up in the water by either passing down remaining tank(s) or by attaching tank(s) to a line in the water off rear of boat.
2. Rough Seas / Heavy Current - need to be fully geared before entering water...this is no different than backmount....you are going to need to shoulder all the weight on deck...don't worry about being pretty and put together...easily clean up gear once you are under water. For exiting in rough seas always assume you are climbing the ladder with your two sm tanks. Depends upon waves and any current you may have abilitiy to pass up stage/deco tanks before attempting ladder. If this is the case at least unclip the lower snap at the hip d-ring before approaching the boat that way there is only one clip to undue for a fast pass up.
3. Mixed Dive Group on Boat - SM takes a little longer to setup than rec divers.
solution: Designate two tanks side by side and set up gear in advance of arriving at dive site. If possible pick a spot near departure point on boat (back deck). Be suited up and ready to be first in so that you have plenty of space to don gear and move around to suit up, or wait until everyone else is in the water and then suit up... just discuss and clarify with captain how he wants to handle it.


Hope this helps

 

[TSandM]

Bartimmo, THANK YOU! Peter and I are particularly interested in the experiences of people using SM in open water, since that's unfortunately where we do the vast majority of our diving.

 

[Jax]

Bartimmo, THANK YOU! Peter and I are particularly interested in the experiences of people using SM in open water, since that's unfortunately where we do the vast majority of our diving.

Hey, Lynne . . . you ARE going to write up your experiences in our "Venture into Sidemount" thread, aren't you? :blinking:

 

[TSandM]

If it's still running by the time we actually start DOING something about this, I suppose!

 

[Ursus]

So, having thoroughly exhausted the segue, can we get back to the original topic? Anybody using sidemount who can pass along things they DON'T like about it?

Bartimmo, THANK YOU! Peter and I are particularly interested in the experiences of people using SM in open water, since that's unfortunately where we do the vast majority of our diving.

My pleasure...I was fortunate to have an instructor who is both experienced across several different dive disciplines and still has remained open minded. Since he specializes in technical as well as sidemount, my tech training was easily modified to take into account sidemount from the very beginning.

The parts that are most important with sidemount are little pieces of mundane information that people either take for granted or overlook passing on. The devil is in the detail...sidemount isn't particularily hard or different from any other diving. You just have to understand the gear. Most of the "Wow" moments were on minor finess points, such as the best way to clip on tanks. Specifically, how to hold the dog clips, etc. Mastering these minor points suddenly allows you to focus on the dive and not spend the entire dive trying to master the gear.

For open ocean you will want to firmly secure the tanks onto the harness. There is no room for simply hanging the tank valve in a bungee like I have seen in some videos. It is with either a lanyard/strong cord or by using a stage kit with tank secured using a dog clip at the neck of tank to chest d-ring. From a practical standpoint you always attach the sidemount tanks (lower chest d-ring and rear rail), and then connect any stage/deco tanks (upper chesh d-ring and hip d-ring). As your dive profile becomes more complex requiring more than one stage/deco tank on each side real estate becomes precious. One trick is to use bungee cord, instead of lnyard/cord, to affix the dog clip around the tank neck. This will give some extra stretch for the clip to reach the d-ring as well as holding the tank nice and snug. It takes a little training to get the muscle memory and hand dexterity to easily snap and unsnap the dog clips for the tanks by touch alone. Do this a few dozen times in a dark quarry or murky lake and it becomes easy.

If there is a lot of waves or strong rolling sea you should be prepared to don all of your tanks, sidemounts and stage/deco(s), while on the boat before entering the water. This can be a lot of weight, but it is no different than same setup in backmount with the exception of the sidemount tanks making your profile wider...center of gravity remains directly under you. On a sloppy deck the worst case is to simply connect all of the stage/deco tanks to your harness by the clips at their neck and then handle connecting each tank's bottom clip to hip d-ring underwater.

Practice gearing up in the pool or lake by first walking your tanks down to the water. If possible tie a loop of heavy cord to a ladder or dock that you can suspend your tanks on in the water. Charge the tanks before putting them in water and then use the clip at the tank's neck to attach them to the cord. Put on your harness, fins and mask and jump in. Retrieve the left tank (short hose) first and secure it to harness and then to place necklace around your neck. Retrive the right sm tank (long hose) and secure it and then wrap hose around neck and clip 2nd stage to right chest d-ring. Repeat until it becomes second nature. You'll find that using dog clips with the largest gate you can find are best for the bottom clips. You will learn to place your ring finger through the eye at the bottom of clip with thumb on the gate. I like clippping upward (gate facing up) but it took some practice and patience just getting comfortable finding and hitting the rail. The upper clip size isn't as important since you can look down and see it on your chest to help the process along. For boat diving using a the rope to suspend the tanks off the boat works the same as shore based, except you will need to be aware of the boat. Should there be any waves you may run the risk of having the boat hit you from above while you are focused on retrieving tanks from the line.

One other point is that you want to routinely change your regs so that you breath fairly evenly off both sidemount tanks. There are two reasons for this routine, with the first and most important being that should you have a tank failure you still have some air left in one tank to end the dive. If you only breath off one tank until its empty and then move to the second tank....what happens when that full second tank has a failure and is no longer usable) The second reason is to assist in maintaining even bouyance/trim. Learning to breath off the two regs takes practice and will take a number of dives before it becomes second nature. Somewhere along the way you will get task loaded and overlook switching and suddenly find that you have sucked off 1000 psi, unintentionally. This happened to my partner and I when we lost our team in zero visibility and attempted to navigate and locate our instructor while still diving the slate. I found that it helped for me to go ahead and switch regs everytime I thought about it. Now it is an involuntary action that occurs every 200-300 psi.

With the exception of some of the considerations for multiple stage/deco tanks, most of the above would be discussed in a Sidemount Class with some hands on exposure to the different types of gear and configurations. Hoever, it won't become doctrine until after a couple dozen dives at which point all of it sinks in and meshes up to become reflex and rountine. Then you start having some fun.

PS - the Bain of Sidemount is having so many tanks that close together...."Clang, Clang, Clang". Mastery of Sidemount with multiple tanks is either learnging to overcome the natural tendency for the tanks to rock or become tone def to that particular range of noise. Truly, the only way to be silent is to have limited number of tanks strapped on.

Good Luck

 

[CamG]

Greetings Lynne and I have been training in the SM configuration for almost a year not exclusively but almost.
What I can tell you is that the pinning down of hose lengths, tank band placements, snap choices, bungee lengths, tank sizes, getting your BC correctly adjusted, and gaining muscle memory takes time.
There have been set backs for me but but all the toil, trouble, and difficulties have made the end justify the means so much sweeter!
I to have struggled with the conversion but agree that SM is but a tool to use when you need it or wish to explore smaller cave.

As far as boat diving I have not used SM yet but plan on it this wreck season.
My SM buddy has and he can be in the water and out as easy or easier than most BM divers.
It really is about training and committing to the configuration.
You are no stranger to this line of thought and so I am certain that it will come easily as you adapt your rig.
Do not delay but take the class with Rob and you will be light years ahead!
I have had the pleasure of attending one of Lamar's seminars and have a friend who worked with Ed from Cave Adventures.
Great ideas that I have tried but much of my rig has come from my good dive buddy who has tried everything you can imagine from every school of thought.

That is one of the things about SM that I have come to love the most is how it can be adapted to fit very individual needs or dive plans.
Do you make another trip with another tank? Yes but it really is lighter than walking all the way to the vehicle. A two wheeled cart can be a awesome thing!

One major down side I can see for you and I is the fact, ARE WE GOING TO GIVE UP BM TOTALLY?
I do not see it happening for a while unless I move to FL and cave dive almost exclusively.
But that being said OW diving in SM is just as enjoyable and more so on many occasions.
Enjoy the training and make it fit you and your dive goals!

CamG Keep diving....Keep training....Keep learning!

 

[Dive-aholic]

Gear Management - Challenge:
1. Attaching Primary tanks - takes some practice getting used to clipping the tanks on the rear rail with one hand. It is harder above water when gravity is pulling tank downward instead of on back angle. Worst case sceanrio is simply to clip tank to chest d-ring and sort out bottom clip in water. With practive it will get easier to find and clip to the rail and will learn how to hold and orient the swivel for best success above and below the water.

What harness are you using? Clipping cylinders shouldn't be difficult at all if the gear is rigged properly.

2. Attaching Deco/Stage tanks - primary sidemount tank tends to cover the hip d-ring. It will take a little practice to learn and be comfortable reaching down to clip...you literally have to hold the deco tanks lower clip in hand while sliding it down between your body and the primary SM tank and then flipping up the SM tank out of the way to access the hip d-ring. This isn't a strength exercise and doesn't require a lot of coordination, but rather just trial and error. Another trick is to make certain to fold the hip d-ring forward before putting on any tanks so that it is easier to get at by being 2" closer to your center.

Try carrying stage cylinders on top. It makes it so much easier and so much more streamlined. Clipping stage cylinders below negates the advantages of SM.

3. Accessing Pockets - getting to thigh pockets is a litttle more challenging. You learn to bring your knee up bending your leg and reaching over the primary SM tanks. This said you are doing this by touch and not sight so best to have pockets that have some form of string or fixture built into them so that you can clip each item to it in case they spill out or that you don't fully fasten your pocket closed.

You shouldn't have to bring your knee up or bend you leg. Pockets should be accessible with your leg straight.

All of the above will be resolved with hands on experience and drills....not that big of deal.

Boat Diving - Challenges:
1. Wider Profile - makes entering and exiting the boat a little more challenging.
solution: Diver can strap on one of the SM tanks and enter the water and gear-up in the water by either passing down remaining tank(s) or by attaching tank(s) to a line in the water off rear of boat.
2. Rough Seas / Heavy Current - need to be fully geared before entering water...this is no different than backmount....you are going to need to shoulder all the weight on deck...don't worry about being pretty and put together...easily clean up gear once you are under water. For exiting in rough seas always assume you are climbing the ladder with your two sm tanks. Depends upon waves and any current you may have abilitiy to pass up stage/deco tanks before attempting ladder. If this is the case at least unclip the lower snap at the hip d-ring before approaching the boat that way there is only one clip to undue for a fast pass up.

I have found it's much easier to carry the weight lower and centered, as in SM, than it is to carry it higher and on your back like BM, especially on a rocking boat.

3. Mixed Dive Group on Boat - SM takes a little longer to setup than rec divers.

Not true in all situations.

solution: Designate two tanks side by side and set up gear in advance of arriving at dive site. If possible pick a spot near departure point on boat (back deck). Be suited up and ready to be first in so that you have plenty of space to don gear and move around to suit up, or wait until everyone else is in the water and then suit up... just discuss and clarify with captain how he wants to handle it.

With the exception of some of the considerations for multiple stage/deco tanks, most of the above would be discussed in a Sidemount Class

Some SM classes cover the use of stage and deco cylinders.

PS - the Bain of Sidemount is having so many tanks that close together...."Clang, Clang, Clang". Mastery of Sidemount with multiple tanks is either learnging to overcome the natural tendency for the tanks to rock or become tone def to that particular range of noise. Truly, the only way to be silent is to have limited number of tanks strapped on.

True when you stage below your SM cylinders. Not true when you stage on top.

 

[ucfdiver]

I've still never seen a video of stages that looks clean in SM. I hear lots of people say their setup works, but no evidence. I'm still struggling with that one myself.

 

[Dive-aholic]

When will you be in Marianna again?

 

[LiteHedded]

When will you be in Marianna again?

I think once they relocate ginnie to marianna he'll be up there a lot more