Is there planning software for the nitek q?
Can you post the NDLs for 45/95 and 95/95 for a 30m Air dive?
The first stop happens when you hit gf low. If a plan lets you exceed gf low before the first stop it is not a gf plan.
Oceanic Geo 2 dead
- Thread starter KentB
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Is there planning software for the nitek q?
Can you post the NDLs for 45/95 and 95/95 for a 30m Air dive?
The first stop happens when you hit gf low. If a plan lets you exceed gf low before the first stop it is not a gf plan.
That totally depends on the implementation. Some planners do it that way. Some don't use GF Lo until GF Hi dictates a stop. Erik Baker's original paper on the subject doesn't specify what to do in that specific situation (where you can go directly to the surface without exceeding GF Hi, but you will exceed GF Lo along the way).
Personally, I don't think it makes any sense to do stops based on GF Lo if you can do a direct ascent without ever exceeding GF Hi. Especially since being in that specific situation means the dive can't have been that long, so even at a 20' stop, your slowest compartments will probably still be on-gassing.
BTW, I just ran some dive plans on my Perdix AI. I am happy to report that it agrees with me. The GF Lo does not make any difference when the GF Hi would allow a direct ascent.
Examples I ran:
Dive to 100' on EAN27 (as that just happens to be what my computer was set for).
With GF90/90, the NDL is 19 minutes. Planning for 20 minutes results in a small deco obligation.
With GF25/90, the NDL is also 19 minutes.
In contrast, when the dive is planned in Multi-Deco, with GF90/90, a dive to the NDL gives no deco, but changing to GF25/90 and planning the dive for the same depth and time results in several deco stops.
So, Multi-Deco uses GF Lo, even when GF Hi would dictate no stops, but the Shearwater Perdix AI does not do that.
What does this mean then?
The lower Gradient Factor value (GF Lo) determines the depth of the first stop. Used to generate deep stops to the depth of the "deepest possible deco stop."
I think it means you initially stop at GF lo, no matter what GF hi might be. Which is what MultiDeco does.
This is part of the bogusness of using GF for NDL dives. Any sensible (ok, currently fashionable) GF for a deco dive is likely to be quite conservative for an NDL dive and a sensible NDL GF pair at the mad end of things for a deco dive.
Maybe Shearwater can tell us how they decide on a first stop. If I can bring myself to spend the money I might reverse engineer it in the water.
Well, I guess it means that if you have any stops, the GF Lo is used to calculate where the first one is.
If you don't need any stops to avoid exceeding your GF Hi, then why would you make any stops at all?
Current research and trends with GF seem to be towards higher and higher values for GF Lo. I have personally asked a couple of well-respected authorities on deco why I should use a GF Lo that is any lower than my GF Hi and nobody yet has had any reason to do so other than "well, that's how we've been doing it, so I would not recommend making too big a change all at once."
In other words, if GF80/80 is just as safe (or safer?) than GF40/80, why do a stop if GF80/80 would require no stops? Whether you use GF40/80 or 80/80, you're still getting out with your leading compartment at 80% of the M-value. The difference is whether you spend more time at deeper depths during the ascent and thus get out with slower compartments closer to the M-values than they would be with less time spent deeper, right? We're talking about an NDL dive, so slow compartments would still be on-gassing at your 40 (or 30 or 20) foot stops, I think.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating diving with GF80/80 as a normal thing. But, Simon Mitchell said he uses 50/80 and my thoughts were already to use something around that, so I have adopted the same thing for myself (for normal, benign, fun, non-working dives).
Because what you describe is a different thing, not what GF is, or for - which is adding deep stops without hugely long deco times that you would get with a 20/20 (or whatever) profile. Whether or not that is sensible is not the point, it is what it is.
Whether your slower compartments are on gassing or off gassing at 20ft would depend on the depth and time of the dive. You see that in the heat maps.
I have no idea what question you were answering or what a 20/20 profile is.
I know what GF are and what they are for. I also know that the latest research is showing more and more evidence that having stops that are deeper than necessary may be detrimental (to the goal of getting out without DCS). If you're using a GF Hi of 80, from what I can tell, there is no evidence to support the notion that making a first stop when your leading compartment gets to a value of 40% of the M-value is actually better (and may be worse) than just ascending all the way until your leading compartment gets to 80, then stopping long enough for you to ascend to your next stop without exceeding 80. Rinse. Repeat, until you arrive at the surface with a leading compartment at 80% or less of its M-value.
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KentB
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So an update.....
i got 5 dives out of it and it worked fine. dive 6 as soon as it hit dive mode it shut off.
the battery compartment had a bit of water in it but I had water under the screen, the battery seal looks perfectly fine but it flooded somewhere Im assuming the buttons? anyways its been dropped off to where I bought it and he said they take A LONG time for warranty and offered me a loaner computer, I declined since the shop is almost 2 hours away and if he says they didn't do anything for me Ill just tell him to toss it and save myself a trip out to drop off the loaner.
the close dive shop I originally tried to get to send it in called oceanic and they basically said floods aren't covered and didn't care Id been emailing them with issues since I got it but if I wanted another one they would send me a refurbished one for $300 plus shipping ( yes considering my first experience with your product was terrible and I feel its a POS heres 75% the cost of a brand new one for a used one) I guess its a good deal since their warranty obviously means nothing.
both dive shops said oceanic is notorious for not talking to the public everything has to go through a dealer.
The dive shop where I bought it said they will honour the warranty whether Oceanic does or not, so hopefully they are true to their word.
I'm sure this is not the ordinary since they seem to get good reviews and recommended quite a bit.
Ill let the situation finish up and update this thread with the outcome.
that said the Perdix AI that I replaced it with is a beauty
i got 5 dives out of it and it worked fine. dive 6 as soon as it hit dive mode it shut off.
the battery compartment had a bit of water in it but I had water under the screen, the battery seal looks perfectly fine but it flooded somewhere Im assuming the buttons? anyways its been dropped off to where I bought it and he said they take A LONG time for warranty and offered me a loaner computer, I declined since the shop is almost 2 hours away and if he says they didn't do anything for me Ill just tell him to toss it and save myself a trip out to drop off the loaner.
the close dive shop I originally tried to get to send it in called oceanic and they basically said floods aren't covered and didn't care Id been emailing them with issues since I got it but if I wanted another one they would send me a refurbished one for $300 plus shipping ( yes considering my first experience with your product was terrible and I feel its a POS heres 75% the cost of a brand new one for a used one) I guess its a good deal since their warranty obviously means nothing.
both dive shops said oceanic is notorious for not talking to the public everything has to go through a dealer.
The dive shop where I bought it said they will honour the warranty whether Oceanic does or not, so hopefully they are true to their word.
I'm sure this is not the ordinary since they seem to get good reviews and recommended quite a bit.
Ill let the situation finish up and update this thread with the outcome.
that said the Perdix AI that I replaced it with is a beauty
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