Not everyone thinks cave diving is the pinnacle of SCUBA!

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

You lay a hand on me unwanted underwater and I simply take it as a threat. I don't know you. I don't know what you intend to do to me when you start to drag me around. Maybe you're trying to kill me. I simply practice self-defense.

Ok... here's another Devil's Advocate thought...

What if the cave diver concerned saw untrained divers entering where they shouldn't...and saw THAT as a threat? Either to themselves or others under their supervision?

That could mean, untrained divers might interfere with guidelines, cause silt-out, cause an obstruction to unhindered egress from the cave...

That cave diver might have been supervising novice cave students further in the passage...or known of such activities taking place. He might have seen the untrained divers accidentally fin kicking and dislodging the guideline etc.

What if the untrained diver constituted a threat to safety? Wouldn't it be hypocritical to deny the cave diver the right to practice "self-defence"?
 
Um . . . So . . . No flat palm shown to me to indicate "stop", no extra efforts to communicate the potential danger . . .? Suddenly, I'm grabbed and dragged. Well, hell, I'd assume I'd stumbled upon a murderous psychopath intent on making this my last dive. I'd fight for my life. Scary enough scenario on dry land!

"grave disturbance" ahahaa. Good one my fellow Canadian.
:)
 
I think grabbing people is not the best way of communication... I'd be thankful if someone makes me aware of any danger, but just don't touch me.
 
I think grabbing people is not the best way of communication... I'd be thankful if someone makes me aware of any danger, but just don't touch me.

Yeah don't you cavers carry slates? Ya'll can't write a short note? I thought todays divers have a look but don't touch MO.
 
And I understand this, but this still gives NO ONE the right to place their hands on someone else. If they were in an immediate danger then I would say otherwise but again some going into a cave untrained doesn't meant that. It just means they are unlikely to return from said venture. But a effort should be made but bot thru force....again in my opinion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

I never said lay hands on any one, nor would I. Sad,... in many ways that there some divers use the brains well south in their anatomy, rather than the God given gray matter between their ears. My only advice to such divers is, there is nothing in ANY cave worth your life (regardless of how good you think you are). Get the training,... The caves will wait.
 
Well...I'm not from the US. I just thought you guys shot everyone...

Great! Now who's gonna help me clean all this coffee out of my laptop keyboard!

th_coffeescreen.gif
 
Pains to their family. Not to you and yours. The site owners are welcome to come up with rules and policies and enforce them. Unless you're a land owner, then leave me alone. I'm not there under your grace.
... and when your actions cause them to put the site off-limits to everyone, you don't care. We get that.


Them's the breaks. Diving is dangerous.
Diving isn't dangerous ... unless by a careless attitude you choose to make it so.

You can act however you want among yourselves. If you impose yourself upon strangers, they may take offense, regardless of whether or not you meant well.

And what if they refuse to be escorted out? Are you going to manhandle them? If you do, then don't be surprised if they retaliate.
... and that lack of comprehension about the rules of engagement inside a cave are exactly the reason why they don't belong there.

It's very simple. You do what you do and let others do what they do. They're the ones that pay the ultimate prices. At most you would be inconvenienced.
That's, unfortunately, not the case. If it were, more folks would be willing to go ahead and let you win a Darwin Award.

Ignorance, poor control, and panic can cause you to silt out the cave, or break a line ... your act of selfishness can potentially cost the lives of anyone inside the cave beyond the point where you happen to be at the time.

And if you die in a cave, someone has to bring your dead carcass out of there. That can often prove to be difficult and dangerous to the people who do it. Your family won't understand that. Someone died at Vortex looking for the fool who disappeared in there a couple years back.

And even if it were the case, what gives you the right to "inconvenience" everyone else through acts of selfish stupidity?

Like I said, if strangers were to come up to me and forcibly manhandle me, I have a 6" pig sticker that I can introduce them to.

Why would you bring a 6" pig sticker in a cave ... to protect yourself from sharks?

Your comments amount to "I can do whatever I want to, and I don't care that I'll be endangering others and inconveniencing everyone else."

That's the sort of attitude that often ends up in a fatality and/or lawsuit. At best it results in laws that prohibit everyone from doing what you just claimed you have a right to do ... which you'd then be the first one to complain about.

"I have the right" comes with a corollary ... "I have the responsibility". Too many people these days ignore the second part ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Last edited:
Very interesting discussion. On the subject of a cave diver physically hauling somebody out, considering that scuba task loads people, and divers are warned about the potential for panic, and we're talking divers presumably in an anxiety provoking environment, being grabbed by a geared up unrecognizable stranger of unknown intent without the ability to speak...

Seems there's a risk to panic, lash out violently, flee into a passage...

I can't just those risks against others. I'm just saying that physical intervention may carry some serious risks of its own. Whether those are worth that risk I'm not qualified to say.

Richard.
 
Very interesting discussion. On the subject of a cave diver physically hauling somebody out, considering that scuba task loads people, and divers are warned about the potential for panic, and we're talking divers presumably in an anxiety provoking environment, being grabbed by a geared up unrecognizable stranger of unknown intent without the ability to speak...

Seems there's a risk to panic, lash out violently, flee into a passage...

I can't just those risks against others. I'm just saying that physical intervention may carry some serious risks of its own. Whether those are worth that risk I'm not qualified to say.

Richard.
Depends on what you mean by physical intervention. I don't favor grabbing someone unless the diver is either incapacitated or posing an imminent threat to somebody. I would however, attempt placing myself in a position to inhibit his ability to continue further into the cave system.

He can call me a scuba nazi later if he likes ... wouldn't be the first time (nor likely the last) ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added February 23rd, 2013 at 06:37 AM ----------

According to Bodybuilding.com, Cave Diving ranks as the number 2 all time extreme sport (just below stratosphere sky diving)... No, you can't make this stuff up:

Bodybuilding.com - To The Extreme: The 9 Most Extreme Sports On (Or Above!) Planet Earth

... if a 61 year old fat guy like me can do it, it just can't be all that extreme ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom