Non GUE DIR

[CALI68]

Yes, he is a very good instructor. Different style than AG, but still good.

Cool! I have his book right here on my desk.


-Chris

 

[JeffG]

Cool! I have his book right here on my desk.


-Chris

I'm going to pick one up in Ottawa this weekend. I'll see if I can get it signed by the author. (Then when he gets punted from GUE, I might be able to E-Bay it for some cash <evil grin>)

 

[melfox26]

Cool! I have his book right here on my desk.


-Chris

Right next to the pic of Jessica Alba? :07:


The quailty of the instruction/instructor is what does it for me, agency is not all that important. I, myself, find 5thD-X's instructors second to none, so I will continue my training with them. While NAUI's minuses are that the instruction is not the same across the board, it's plusses are that the instructor can make changes they deem necessary, thus making it still DIR while not being under GUE when taking instruction from those that choose to make those changes, like the 5thD-X team has.

That being said, a NAUI Technical Diver 1 card carrying diver won't be able to assume that another diver from across the country carrying the same card is safe to dive with. The beauty of GUE, is that you are able to make that assumption because all the training is identical. That concerned me a little bit when I first heard of all the changes coming to pass, but that concern only lasted a minute. How often do I go anywhere to dive without a buddy? I don't. My current circle of DIR dive buddies are all trained by the same individuals (more or less) and will continue to be. So, being NAUI or GUE doesn't really matter to me, I'm just gonna go dive.

In the famous words by Mr. Rodney King, "Why can't we all just get along?"


Mel

 

[Tavi]

I'm the second diver that Derek S spoke of in his post. My class (Technical Nitrox, Deco Proceedures, and Helitrox) was just before the new standards for the NAUI Tec gear configuration came out. We were directed to GUE's anatomy of a technical diver for equipment configuration.

Also, my instructor was very DIR!!

Thanks to people here and on the Deco Stop, when it came time in our class for the Instructors to check out our gear, Mine was "by the book"

I was told that with the new standards the only difference between NAUI Trimix and the GUE equivalent was the RGBM Tables.

I've been on boats with my team mates (NAUI trained) and with GUE trained divers. There were no attitudes, and not much different!!

 

[CALI68]

Right next to the pic of Jessica Alba? :07:


The quailty of the instruction/instructor is what does it for me, agency is not all that important. I, myself, find 5thD-X's instructors second to none, so I will continue my training with them. While NAUI's minuses are that the instruction is not the same across the board, it's plusses are that the instructor can make changes they deem necessary, thus making it still DIR while not being under GUE when taking instruction from those that choose to make those changes, like the 5thD-X team has.

That being said, a NAUI Technical Diver 1 card carrying diver won't be able to assume that another diver from across the country carrying the same card is safe to dive with. The beauty of GUE, is that you are able to make that assumption because all the training is identical. That concerned me a little bit when I first heard of all the changes coming to pass, but that concern only lasted a minute. How often do I go anywhere to dive without a buddy? I don't. My current circle of DIR dive buddies are all trained by the same individuals (more or less) and will continue to be. So, being NAUI or GUE doesn't really matter to me, I'm just gonna go dive.

In the famous words by Mr. Rodney King, "Why can't we all just get along?"


Mel

Well put Mel.

PS The picture of Me and Jessica Alba on my wall is for sales purposes only I assure you.

 

[Hoosier]

I've read this response to Soggy's quote at least 10 times, and each time I read it, its like I'm on a roller coaster. There are so many twists and turns, and it seems to go on forever - but its pretty short, doesn't really go anywhere and ends up where it originally started.

I just read it again and still don't understand it.

Soggy is right. Its absurd to think DIR divers "won't" or "can't" dive with non-DIR divers. If you're a competent, safe, aware diver - its all good. If you're an idiot we find someone else to dive with. Regardless of the agency you were trained with.

---
Ken
.

I read read read your post 20 times. But, I can’t get rid of the idea that you have a typical DIR mind that I am trying to address. Your excuse is trying to beatify DIR divers’ tendency with the ideal phrase. I don’t say all 100% DIR divers “can’t” and “won’t” dive with non-DIR certified divers. Whenever we are talking about the “tendency,” there is no assumption that it covers 100% target group of people.

If then, based on your standard, what is your distinction if some divers are qualified to dive with you (DIR certified) or not (in your expression, “if you’re an idiot, we find someone else to dive with)? How did you know their skill levels even if you don’t dive with them? Do you count on their agency, certified levels or what factors? Based on what position and factors you can judge other divers’ levels?

You said that “If you're a competent, safe, aware diver - its all good. If you're an idiot we find someone else to dive with. Regardless of the agency you were trained with.”

How do you think about the following your DIR inner circle diver’s post and reply:

”That being said, a NAUI Technical Diver 1 card carrying diver won't be able to assume that another diver from across the country carrying the same card is safe to dive with. The beauty of GUE, is that you are able to make that assumption because all the training is identical.”

“Well put Mel.”


If you aren’t a DIR diver and read the posts above, what do you expect that non-DIR divers think? It is totally ego prick in my perspective as a non-DIR diver. Are you sure if you aren’t idiot to dive with anybody?

I don’t see any cultures and organizations have been eventually successful with an exclusive-mindedness.. GUE is taking that path…… You can choose your body whoever you want. But, it won’t be easy to change the viewpoints of non-DIR divers unless GUE has more open minded.” Look at that, they even fight each other within GUE.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here ... but ... there isn't that much difference between what NAUI Tech teaches and what DIR teaches. Hasn't been for some time, in fact. If a GUE instructor decides to leave that organization and cross over to another, NAUI seems to be the logical choice due to the similarities in the two programs.

As to the politics ... most DIR divers don't care either. We prefer to focus on diving ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Like I said, I don’t know AG. I have never met him and talked with him. But, I was told that he is a very qualified instructor. I am also told about recent DIR scooter war. It sounds like all about politics and personal interests though. As I understood, it is the same case. “Mine is right, yours is wrong.”

In the same context, my point is how other agency can accept the former GUE people who must have drived out other agencies curriculum so far. OK, as you post, now what? If there isn't that much difference between what NAUI Tech teaches and what DIR teaches, NAUI will admit GUE concept and curriculum, so it doesn’t matter the cross over from GUE. I am wondering if NAUI doesn’t have that many human resources that can develop their own concept and curriculum. Without taking DIR-F, GUE doesn’t allow any divers to take any other classes GUE offers. How about NAUI? NAUI doesn’t matter that any DIR divers who passed DIR-F can jump in any NAUI course? If your answer is “Yes,” why do we have to take NAUI tech course instead of GUE. GUE sounds like more superior……

In conclusion, if you read my previous posts, I am interested in DIR-F course because I admit the curriculum and idea of class is a good, but it is also inevitable that DIR ego-prick mind is bothering many non-DIR divers in this sport. Based on your post, I don’t think I am qualified to dive with the inner circle divers, why are you here instead of decostop if you are so qualified, but please remember that the main group of scuba divers is still non-DIR divers in the world. Many dive businesses can feed their family thanks to non-DIR divers in the world….

 

[mweitz]

Hey Hoosier, sorry, I should have been clearer in my original post.

One of the nice things about DIR is if you want to do some higher level diving, you can post to a local DIR list and find someone with like training and possibly some gear to loan you so you won't need to schlep so much stuff. I have extra sets of doubles, so if anyone needs em in the Monterey Area and they are available, and you are DIR trained you are welcome to them. Since you are DIR trained I know that you know what to do with them (as long as you were trained in doubles).

Now, as far as non DIR divers, well, from a recreational standpoint I'll dive with anyone as long as they aren't bragging about their 210' wreck penetration on air (I think this is the type of thing Ken is referring to, but I'm just guessing). I think most DIR folks are the same. For those DIR folks that choose not to dive with typical recreational divers, it is mostly a matter of convenience. It is simply easier to dive with another DIR diver since we all have like training. It is sort of hard to explain, but a quick example is we all have can lights and have basic training on how to use them for passive communication. As a result we rarely have lost buddies and don't have to keep looking behind our shoulder for our buddy.

Make sense?

Mark

 

[CALI68]

I read read read your post 20 times. But, I can’t get rid of the idea that you have a typical DIR mind that I am trying to address. Your excuse is trying to beatify DIR divers’ tendency with the ideal phrase. I don’t say all 100% DIR divers “can’t” and “won’t” dive with non-DIR certified divers. Whenever we are talking about the “tendency,” there is no assumption that it covers 100% target group of people.

If then, based on your standard, what is your distinction if some divers are qualified to dive with you (DIR certified) or not (in your expression, “if you’re an idiot, we find someone else to dive with)? How did you know their skill levels even if you don’t dive with them? Do you count on their agency, certified levels or what factors? Based on what position and factors you can judge other divers’ levels?

You said that “If you're a competent, safe, aware diver - its all good. If you're an idiot we find someone else to dive with. Regardless of the agency you were trained with.”

How do you think about the following your DIR inner circle diver’s post and reply:

”That being said, a NAUI Technical Diver 1 card carrying diver won't be able to assume that another diver from across the country carrying the same card is safe to dive with. The beauty of GUE, is that you are able to make that assumption because all the training is identical.”

“Well put Mel.”


If you aren’t a DIR diver and read the posts above, what do you expect that non-DIR divers think? It is totally ego prick in my perspective as a non-DIR diver. Are you sure if you aren’t idiot to dive with anybody?

I don’t see any cultures and organizations have been eventually successful with an exclusive-mindedness.. GUE is taking that path…… You can choose your body whoever you want. But, it won’t be easy to change the viewpoints of non-DIR divers unless GUE has more open minded.” Look at that, they even fight each other within GUE.






Like I said, I don’t know AG. I have never met him and talked with him. But, I was told that he is a very qualified instructor. I am also told about recent DIR scooter war. It sounds like all about politics and personal interests though. As I understood, it is the same case. “Mine is right, yours is wrong.”

In the same context, my point is how other agency can accept the former GUE people who must have drived out other agencies curriculum so far. OK, as you post, now what? If there isn't that much difference between what NAUI Tech teaches and what DIR teaches, NAUI will admit GUE concept and curriculum, so it doesn’t matter the cross over from GUE. I am wondering if NAUI doesn’t have that many human resources that can develop their own concept and curriculum. Without taking DIR-F, GUE doesn’t allow any divers to take any other classes GUE offers. How about NAUI? NAUI doesn’t matter that any DIR divers who passed DIR-F can jump in any NAUI course? If your answer is “Yes,” why do we have to take NAUI tech course instead of GUE. GUE sounds like more superior……

In conclusion, if you read my previous posts, I am interested in DIR-F course because I admit the curriculum and idea of class is a good, but it is also inevitable that DIR ego-prick mind is bothering many non-DIR divers in this sport. Based on your post, I don’t think I am qualified to dive with the inner circle divers, why are you here instead of decostop if you are so qualified, but please remember that the main group of scuba divers is still non-DIR divers in the world. Many dive businesses can feed their family thanks to non-DIR divers in the world….

I'm still not sure why you quoted Mel and I :06: . Mel is basically saying that the good thing about GUE is that no matter where you go in the world you know the GUE person you're going to meet up with is safe (meaning trained) because he or she passed (whatever level) and holds a card stating so. It's just convenient. You know the person can do an S Drill, you know the person knows your rig, you know the person understands the ascent and deco you're gonna do and so on. In that regard he or she is safe. I would dive on a 60' reef with a competent diver regardless of what agency is behind them but for a real tech dive (when I'm there) sorry my choice is someone that knows exactally what I know and vice versa. That's where the decision becomes hard...unless you travel all over with you're usual gang.

I replied "Well put Mel" because I knew exactly what he meant...and he's one of my dive buddies. Neither one of us are pricks and I'll have anyone legs broken that would contest that. fuggetaboutit


As far as Mo2Vation goes, the funny thing is that Ken's about as nice a Guy as you'll find and very far from being a "prick".


-Chris

 

[melfox26]

You said that “If you're a competent, safe, aware diver - its all good. If you're an idiot we find someone else to dive with. Regardless of the agency you were trained with.”

How do you think about the following your DIR inner circle diver’s post and reply:

”That being said, a NAUI Technical Diver 1 card carrying diver won't be able to assume that another diver from across the country carrying the same card is safe to dive with. The beauty of GUE, is that you are able to make that assumption because all the training is identical.”

“Well put Mel.”


If you aren’t a DIR diver and read the posts above, what do you expect that non-DIR divers think? It is totally ego prick in my perspective as a non-DIR diver. Are you sure if you aren’t idiot to dive with anybody?

Hoosier,

You have completely taken my post and Chris' reply out of context. If you'll refer to Mark's first post in this thread, it's about non-GUE DIR. This thread is not about DIR divers not wanting to dive with anyone that is not DIR.

If you'll take the DIR-F class, you'll see that it is taught the exact same across the board, by all GUE instructors. Your class taught by (fill in instructors name) will be the same as mine, taught by Joe Talavera/Delia Milliron. That's why we know that another diver, even if we haven't met/dove with them before, is a safe/competent diver if they have that card.

That is not the case with NAUI, where I believe that allow the individual instructors to deviate from the curriculum. That being said, maybe I should've been clearer with what I posted earlier, but who was I to know that someone would take it in such a way to call me an ego driven prick. If a NAUI class, say a Tech 1 class, is taught two different ways by 2 different instructors, how is one supposed to be sure about the skill level of another diver coming out of the other program? My response was answering this question, you don't know of the skill level of the other diver is the answer because he/she was not taught the same way as you. If it was a GUE class, that would not be the case. They may be a safe/competent diver, however, will I or other DIR divers go down to depths below the recreational limit with them without knowing them? The answer is probably not. If that makes me and others ego driven pricks, as you called us, so be it.



Mel

 

[Soggy]

If you'll take the DIR-F class, you'll see that it is taught the exact same across the board, by all GUE instructors. Your class taught by (fill in instructors name) will be the same as mine, taught by Joe Talavera/Delia Milliron.

Do you really believe that?