Non GUE DIR

[Mo2vation]

The "system" can encompass procedural issues as well. As the diving gets more complicated, the procedural issues become more important. (As an example think of when there is a Gas change due to deco....this is the step that gets its most victims)

I completely agree - hence the holistic approach.

I was just seeking clarification.

---
Ken

 

[Derek S]

I'm not here to debate the merits (or demerits as it were) of a non-GUE training. IMHO, a competent diver is a competent diver, regardless of agency.

I dove with an instructor 2 weekends ago (who incidentally, has been diving for nearly 40 years) on Lake Erie who was wearing a stab jacket and split fins. His trim was flawless, buoyancy was spot on. While I usually abhor "insta-buddies", this was a fairly shallow dive (40ffw) with a light profile, so I didn't sweat it. Now that its said and done, I'd easily dive with this man anytime, split fins and all.

Another friend of mine who is a NAUI instructor has taken the NAUI tech class. When given information for the class, he was told to look at JJ's "Anatomy of a Technical Diver" for clarification on gear config.

I think the World's ponds are big enough for all of us to co-exist peacefully.

It'd be a shame for people to miss the forest for the trees......

 

[lamont]

I don't think any cards are going to get pulled if you get in the water with a diver of another agency.

As the difficulty of the dive goes up, though, so does the utility of having all the divers on the same page with the same SOPs. All being trained by the same agency can clearly help, but nothing will replace having been diving together before as a team.

 

[mweitz]

I just think it is important to understand where everyone is coming from, that is all. That is why I put the little disclaimer on my original post. It is important to have a clear understanding of folks level of involvement in assesing their opinions. I am a customer and only a customer. I did once loan Joe T a piece of gear for a class, but that is it. For the record I have also loaned gear to: DH, KM, SS, AK, CB, PL, AS, JU, SS, MW and maybe a few others, so it isn't an unusual circumstance.

In my opinion if you are on the X-Scooter Demo team, and you were compensated for it, then you work for one of AG's entities in some capacity. Just like the two JW's. At some level they work for AG or one of his entities (or at least they did, I don't know their current level of involvement). I would like to point out that there is NOTHING wrong with it, but that it is valid information.


em·ploy·ee also em·ploy·e (ĕm-ploiʹē, ĭm-, ĕm´ploi-ēʹ) noun

A person who works for another in return for financial or other compensation.

af·fil·i·ate (ə-fĭlʹē-āt´) verb
af·fil·i·at·ed, af·fil·i·at·ing, af·fil·i·ates

verb, transitive

1.​

​

​

To adopt or accept as a member, subordinate associate, or branch.

2.To associate (oneself) as a subordinate, subsidiary, employee, or member: affiliated herself with a new law firm.
​

3.To assign the origin of.

EDIT, oops, forgot this:

Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products N.V., further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.




Thanks,

Mark

Uh, no I don't. I got a discount on a scooter...that's it. What's your point?

 

[boomx5]

I just think it is important to understand where everyone is coming from, that is all. That is why I put the little disclaimer on my original post. It is important to have a clear understanding of folks level of involvement in assesing their opinions. I am a customer and only a customer. I did once loan Joe T a piece of gear for a class, but that is it. For the record I have also loaned gear to: DH, KM, SS, AK, CB, PL, AS, JU, SS, MW and maybe a few others, so it isn't an unusual circumstance.

In my opinion if you are on the X-Scooter Demo team, and you were compensated for it, then you work for one of AG's entities in some capacity. Just like the two JW's. At some level they work for AG or one of his entities (or at least they did, I don't know their current level of involvement). I would like to point out that there is NOTHING wrong with it, but that it is valid information.


em·ploy·ee also em·ploy·e (ĕm-ploiʹē, ĭm-, ĕm´ploi-ēʹ) noun

A person who works for another in return for financial or other compensation.

af·fil·i·ate (ə-fĭlʹē-āt´) verb
af·fil·i·at·ed, af·fil·i·at·ing, af·fil·i·ates

verb, transitive

1.​

​

​

To adopt or accept as a member, subordinate associate, or branch.

2.To associate (oneself) as a subordinate, subsidiary, employee, or member: affiliated herself with a new law firm.
​

3.To assign the origin of.

EDIT, oops, forgot this:

Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products N.V., further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.




Thanks,

Mark

I still fail to see what the relevance to your original post is...why do you even bother to bring this up? The fact that I got the same discount as other test team members, and the same discount as those who are not on the test team (but received a demo day discount) has nothing to do with AG switching to NAUI. What is your issue with me?

 

[mweitz]

Ken,

No, not just the gear, that was just a quick example. I also don't mean as much in the recreational realm (that is all good, I will dive with anyone at this point in my career; recreational, TDI Tech, whatever). But, as you move towards more significant dives (which a lot of GUE trained people seem to) procedures become more and more important. In the case of taking a class from AG right now, it isn't going to be significantly different then taking it from a GUE instructor, but in time it may. Then when IANTD and SSI start their DIR programs, how will those be? SSI allows instructors to modify their classes. So now you have some guy who was Left Lean, Rich Right trained teaching an SSI DIR class (I'm making that up, just looking into the future and that is what I see). They decide that is a better way to go (1st learned, right?). So, now we have all these "DIR" guys with the green regs and color coded bottles and such.

So, that is really my point. I'm not really talking about the Scott's in the world. His NAUI Tech 2 will be a fine class, I'm sure and all of the 5thdX instructors are exceptional teachers. I'm talking more in the future 5 years.

Mark

 

[wb416]

[snip]

BTW, the idea that DIR divers cannot dive with non-GUE people is absurd. I am very picky about who I dive with, and all my buddies are like-minded and some, but not all of us are GUE trained. Being on the same page is what is important, not what agency did your training.

Agreed... the idea that I wouldn't dive with anyone I choose to willingly dive with is as absurd as it is incorrect. Granted, in for some dive situations I'm pickier than others (e.g. cave/tech), but politics and dive philosophies will never dictate who I dive with.

In fact, I just got back from a week long Coz trip with a group of non-GUE divers and had an absolute blast UW and topside.

Regards,
Bob

 

[mweitz]

It is just good to be clear about your affiliations, that is ALL. I have a lot of respect for you Scott, your actions on and offline have shown me you are a man of integrity.

Mark

I still fail to see what the relevance to your original post is...why do you even bother to bring this up? The fact that I got the same discount as other test team members, and the same discount as those who are not on the test team (but received a demo day discount) has nothing to do with AG switching to NAUI. What is your issue with me?

 

[JeffG]

It is just good to be clear about your affiliations, that is ALL. I have a lot of respect for you Scott, your actions on and offline have shown me you are a man of integrity.

Mark

We all know he is an X-Man.

 

[seavonj]

So,

How do folks feel about non GUE trained DIR divers? It looks like at least NAUI is getting on the bandwagon. Will the GUE Tech divers be able to do dives with the NAUI Tech divers? Will they want to? Do we think that as time goes on, the systems (from agency to agency) will slowly morph away from each other? It seems that at least one NAUI instructor has made modifications to some of the DIR systems.

Let's try to keep this a bit on topic and FLAME FREE.

If you post to this thread and have ANY affiliation with any training agency or instructors, please state it.

Thanks,

Mark

1. GUE is a training Agency, it trains in the DIR methods of diving, GUE does not have a copyright on DIR methods. I'm not sure how folks feel about non GUE trained divers. I have always tried to keep an open mind, learning should never stop, diving is a new activity to human kind only being really in existance for the past few hundred years, of these only about 60 have been in a recreational. The evolution of diving will continue to happen, GUE is not the final word in diving as some of you suggest.

2. Will GUE divers be allowed to dive with NAUI trained divers?? If GUE has a problem with such an activity they are on a fast track to self destruction, I would rather dive with some open water divers than dive with a few of you GUE so called Tech divers.

3. Do you think the system will morph away from other training agencies? I don't think so, I think if anything they will learn from each other and use the better methods to their advantage and advancement in procedures.

4. GUE allowing AG to leave is a huge step backwards for GUE, they just don't realize it yet. Of all my instructors over the years there have only been two that have mentioned anything about " thinking" one was Andrew and the other a commercial diver supervisor of mine in the NW who ever mentioned about constantly keep thinking.

For someone who wants to keep things flame free you certainly aren't doing a good job at it!