No such thing as a Pony Bottle

[Storker]

Srsly. Are you clueless or just trolling?


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[KenGordon]

Srsly. Are you clueless or just trolling?


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Typos are a feature, not a bug

Clueless as to why you want two first stages with an isolation valve between them if it isn't to be able to close the isolation valve in the event of gas loss on one side or the other?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Well, again. We are talking about CLASS with instructor OP chose and pays to teach. It's not just a dive with some buddy. If you don't trust your instructor - find another one, if you do - do as he says. It's that simple.

Now. Learning how to feel comfortable WITHOUT pony, monitoring air, being aware of other divers, surroundings is BEST with the instructor. It's a class. This is where you learn how to deal with things without pony. As I said before - after the class, pony or no pony - nobody cares. Sling 2 ponies if you want to, but in the class it's the best time to learn how to deal with situations without pony. Why? Because in real life situation you have chances (although slim) ending up at 130 feet alone without pony; and if you have never done it before you have a very high chance of panicking and eventually getting into an accident. That's why when you are with the instructor you chose and paid you practice the worst scenario.

Later, during the "regular" dives - yeah, do whatever you want, but class is not a "dive", class is where you practice all sorts of possible scenarios that may happen in real life.


And I agree with the insutructor taking the student to 130 feet with 5 mm wetsuit on 50 degrees. Why? Because it can happen in real life. A person may get separated, be swept away by the current, get entangled, hit thermocline, end up in depth that wasn't planned. And if that person never done that, then there is a high chance of person starting panicking. So.. the class with an instructor is the best place to practice these extreme scenarios.

My friend had a class like that. The instructor took him to about 40F deep dive, everybody got narked, it was dark, few folks started panicking, but they handled the situation. The instructor had 2 more assistant divers. Well.. months later my friend ended up saving a panicky girl on a deep dive. He said "after that crazy dive we did, getting a girl from a 90 feet was piece of cake". My friend had about 30 dives back then, she had about 100. Eventually he appreciated that deep dive, he always said "at least I know how it feels being narced in dark murky freezing water, now I know I can handle it".

Do as he says? WTF are you talking about? He is not the boss. The person paying is. If the person paying wants to use a spare cylinder and it's within standards the instructor can yes, choose not to allow it. But he better refund the students money. The student should be trained in the configuration they are going to be diving in after the class. That is just common sense. It's like these bozo's that won't allow a BPW even if the student owns it and tells the instructor that's what they'll be diving in.

The OP set up a proper stage bottle from the looks of it. They want to use it. It's within standards and, could be argued, required by them at some point. Case closed. If the instructor refuses to allow it they should be dumped and reported.

If an instructor had done that with someone I cared about he'd be reported. I'm guessing you are not an instructor either with a great deal of coldwater experience?

 

[mrdre]

....The student should be trained in the configuration they are going to be diving in after the class.....

Are you sure that the OP will always dive with a pony? Maybe we should ask OP: are you always going to be diving with a pony? If the answer is "yes" - then your argument is right (which means flying with a pony or diving locally only and missing most of the dives in most of the countries), but if the answer is "no", then those who suggest taking class with the pony are doing really disservice to the person, who may be diving later without a pony and will not know what to do in case of emergency.


And, it this "instructor only" forum? Why would I be an instructor? Instructors aren't paid well.

 

[BUDMANOK]

So because it's a "class" it's not a dive? do people not die in "class" just like in a dive? I'm not sure that I trust anyone that much underwater to not properly plan and that means exposure protection and the gas you need.

So if an instructor says "trust me I've done this before" all your personal responsibility goes out the window?

 

[KenGordon]

So because it's a "class" it's not a dive? do people not die in "class" just like in a dive? I'm not sure that I trust anyone that much underwater to not properly plan and that means exposure protection and the gas you need.

So if an instructor says "trust me I've done this before" all your personal responsibility goes out the window?

This is a properly interesting question.

A typical entry level diver has doesn't have the knowledge to take much personal responsibility and make informed choices.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Well, again. We are talking about CLASS with instructor OP chose and pays to teach. It's not just a dive with some buddy. If you don't trust your instructor - find another one, if you do - do as he says. It's that simple.

Now. Learning how to feel comfortable WITHOUT pony, monitoring air, being aware of other divers, surroundings is BEST with the instructor. It's a class. This is where you learn how to deal with things without pony. As I said before - after the class, pony or no pony - nobody cares. Sling 2 ponies if you want to, but in the class it's the best time to learn how to deal with situations without pony. Why? Because in real life situation you have chances (although slim) ending up at 130 feet alone without pony; and if you have never done it before you have a very high chance of panicking and eventually getting into an accident. That's why when you are with the instructor you chose and paid you practice the worst scenario.

Later, during the "regular" dives - yeah, do whatever you want, but class is not a "dive", class is where you practice all sorts of possible scenarios that may happen in real life.


And I agree with the insutructor taking the student to 130 feet with 5 mm wetsuit on 50 degrees. Why? Because it can happen in real life. A person may get separated, be swept away by the current, get entangled, hit thermocline, end up in depth that wasn't planned. And if that person never done that, then there is a high chance of person starting panicking. So.. the class with an instructor is the best place to practice these extreme scenarios.

My friend had a class like that. The instructor took him to about 40F deep dive, everybody got narked, it was dark, few folks started panicking, but they handled the situation. The instructor had 2 more assistant divers. Well.. months later my friend ended up saving a panicky girl on a deep dive. He said "after that crazy dive we did, getting a girl from a 90 feet was piece of cake". My friend had about 30 dives back then, she had about 100. Eventually he appreciated that deep dive, he always said "at least I know how it feels being narced in dark murky freezing water, now I know I can handle it".

Really.. An advanced dive class is where you "practice" a whole bunch of dangerous, unlikely events so that if they ever occur, you will be able to handle it? Where do you come up with this stuff? The advanced openwater (PADI) courses have strict protocols that LIMIT what the student can be exposed to.

It is not that unlikely for a person to get their mask ripped off or kicked from a panicked diver. Is that allowed in a class?

It is quite possible that in real life a diver may have their regulator ripped from their mouth and a panicked diver grabs the hose and begins to swim for the surface as fast as possible dragging the diver with him and potentially ripping the hose right off the first stage. Is THAT allowed in a PADI class?

I thought an advance class was where the student is gradually exposed to some slightly more challenging conditions, while having the support and guidance of an instructor. I can think of 20 more "bad scenarios" that instructors would never be allowed to subject their students to.

 

[mrdre]

So because it's a "class" it's not a dive? do people not die in "class" just like in a dive? ...

Can you site a case?

When the student jumps from the boat to the ocean for the first time isn't he/she doing exactly what the instructor tells to do? What responsibility and what choice the student can have? He is just doing what he is been told to do. How do you image "teaching/learning" thing works? You chose the instructor, you learn from the instructor. You don't like the instructor - change the instructor. But when you are hiring an instructor to teach him.. well... you are annoying the instructor and you are not learning yourself. You can do it, of course, it's your life and your money. But wouldn't it be better to get the most out of instructor, get the training and then dive any way you want?

---------- Post added September 27th, 2014 at 02:59 PM ----------

Really.. An advanced dive class is where you "practice" a whole bunch of dangerous, unlikely events so that if they ever occur, you will be able to handle it? Where do you come up with this stuff? The advanced openwater (PADI) courses have strict protocols that LIMIT what the student can be exposed to.

It is not that unlikely for a person to get their mask ripped off or kicked from a panicked diver. Is that allowed in a class?

It is quite possible that in real life a diver may have their regulator ripped from their mouth and a panicked diver grabs the hose and begins to swim for the surface as fast as possible dragging the diver with him and potentially ripping the hose right off the first stage. Is THAT allowed in a PADI class?

I thought an advance class was where the student is gradually exposed to some slightly more challenging conditions, while having the support and guidance of an instructor. I can think of 20 more "bad scenarios" that instructors would never be allowed to subject their students to.

You are bringing up very good examples to prove my point "It's not unlikely for a person to get their mask ripped off..." you says... and yeeess - that's why they practice mask removal and replacement.

"It is quite possible that in real life a diver may have their regulator ripped from their mouth " you says.. and yeeess - that's why they practice regulator recovery and/or breathing from octopus.

Yes.. they do practice all these scenarios that may happen in real life, so when things happen in real life the diver will know what to do.

 

[BUDMANOK]

We are talking about situations beyond OW class as I said in my first or second post. I guess I'm thinking the OP has more experience than maybe he does. I think anyone doing DM training would have the experience

 

[mrdre]

We are talking about situations beyond OW class as I said in my first or second post. I guess I'm thinking the OP has more experience than maybe he does. I think anyone doing DM training would have the experience

Not necessary, we are talking about deep dive "specialty". The person could have just finished 4 OW checkout dives and the next dive could be "AOW" "deep" dive. So the person may have never been on the "dives" besides the OW class. We don't know the OPs experience, but this is a possible scenario.