No such thing as a Pony Bottle

[BUDMANOK]

Do people not die in class?

That was a question not a statement hence the question mark. Sorry that was not clear

 

[mrdre]

Do people not die in class?

That was a question not a statement hence the question mark. Sorry that was not clear

I don't know. Never heard of. Maybe more experienced folks will know a case. I'd think that chances are pretty low.

 

[Tigerman]

I don't know. Never heard of. Maybe more experienced folks will know a case. I'd think that chances are pretty low.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...-instructor-faces-charges-merged-threads.html
There you go, thats just the first search here on SB..

 

[PantherDiver]

Are you sure that the OP will always dive with a pony? Maybe we should ask OP: are you always going to be diving with a pony? If the answer is "yes" - then your argument is right (which means flying with a pony or diving locally only and missing most of the dives in most of the countries), but if the answer is "no", then those who suggest taking class with the pony are doing really disservice to the person, who may be diving later without a pony and will not know what to do in case of emergency.


And, it this "instructor only" forum? Why would I be an instructor? Instructors aren't paid well.

Yes, I plan to always be diving with my pony in all conditions as now it's a part of my kit. I finished Rescue two years ago. Part of the program is to do a whole bunch of specialties then Divemaster. I understand when I'm doing the actual Divemaster portion there is expected requirements and demands that a pony would be a problem. I had wanted a pony since the day it got left and realized how in optimal settings a buddy should be there for help, things happen. I prefer not to do a CESA as someone stated from 130 feet if at all possible, your welcome to it. My course was Deep Diver and after reading the book talking about alternate air sources I proceeded to do research which several blogs including one from Doppler convinced me that 30cf would be fine. I read, thought out and figured what would do for my needs and abilities. The instructor does not take a pony with him and we were all diving on a single 80 with 28% Nitrox. I've never had a dive with this instructor or the student that was also going to be in the class. My reasons for the post was I received a poor response from the owner who is also a instructor who insisted a pony was a tech skill and that there was no such thing as a pony that it's a stage bottle.

 

[beaverdivers]

Yes, I plan to always be diving with my pony in all conditions as now it's a part of my kit.

Have fun diving with your pony. Most of our divers use ponies. Those that don't want one for christmas.

 

[Tigerman]

Are you sure that the OP will always dive with a pony? Maybe we should ask OP: are you always going to be diving with a pony? If the answer is "yes" - then your argument is right (which means flying with a pony or diving locally only and missing most of the dives in most of the countries), but if the answer is "no", then those who suggest taking class with the pony are doing really disservice to the person, who may be diving later without a pony and will not know what to do in case of emergency.


And, it this "instructor only" forum? Why would I be an instructor? Instructors aren't paid well.

1. Doesn't matter if its "always", "mostly" or "sometimes" as long as it's gear that's going to be used on a regular basis...
2. The options isn't "dive locally or fly with the pony" - diveshops actually rent those as well you know...

 

[TSandM]

I seriously disagree with taking students into unreasonable conditions because someday "it might happen". I think it makes far more sense to teach students that hypothermia is dangerous, and that appropriate exposure protection is part of the development of a sensible dive plan.

Similarly, yes, there are people who will dive beyond reasonable gas reserves because they think a pony bottle is magic protection. There are people who don't check their gas, either, but do we think diving is inadvisable because somebody might do it wrong?

There are pony configurations that are poorly thought-out and unworkable. Part of an instructor's responsibility should be to look at the way a diver has configured his kit and spot problems -- where attaching something has blocked access to something else, and the like. I would like to think I could do that for someone diving a pony, even one back-mounted (a configuration I have never used). Common sense and an awareness of what you need to do during a dive will go a long way toward measuring the usability of a gear setup.

 

[Storker]

Clueless as to why you want two first stages with an isolation valve between them if it isn't to be able to close the isolation valve in the event of gas loss on one side or the other?

Now you're either failing miserably in the reading comprehension department, or you're deliberately moving the goalposts to the other side of the field. Pray tell, where did I ever say that the reason for diving doubles must be redundant gas or two first stages with an isolation valve between them?

And just to refresh your memory, from post #142:

Not if the only "advantage" the diver expects is a center of mass closer to his/her back than what a single tank setup provides. Or if the expected "advantage" is to carry a little more gas in a more comfortable way than with a 15L 300bar single tank.

And from post #146:

I never claimed that the doubles were supposed to ensure redundant gas.

 

[KenGordon]

Now you're either failing miserably in the reading comprehension department, or you're deliberately moving the goalposts to the other side of the field. Pray tell, where did I ever say that the reason for diving doubles must be redundant gas or two first stages with an isolation valve between them?
:

You asked what is the difference underwater between a single and a twinset.

I dunno 'bout the first. About the second: even freshly minted OW or 1* divers 'round here may well end up with doubles. Used - or, as they say in the ads, "pre-owned" - gear is often seen as a good choice for a new diver on a budget. I dive a single tank setup myself, for various reasons, but I don't see any problem with doubles, even for unexperienced divers. I've dived with unexperienced, insecure divers using doubles, and I haven't been able to see any difference.

Since you apparently know more about this issue than I do, please tell me: what's the difference from a single tank setup once you get underwater?

I answered "the knob in the middle".

The reason for that is that while twinsets come in many sizes a particular feature is that they contain two either isolated or isolatable gas supplies. Thus in the event of a failure the user MAY have a backup IF they can work it.

Since this thread is about taking a redundant backup on a dive it seems reasonable to discuss whether such backups are effective in the hands of a novice user.

You specified a twinset as having one particular configuration which included two first stages but then claimed that you don't use it for redundancy. That is a configuration which is the first choice way to gain redundancy of many divers doing dives they consider require it. If you don't need redundancy a single first stage will be simpler, that was how it was done in the past.

A twinset can be used like a big single and that might be helpful for people having trouble with gas consumption. You framed your question in terms underwater, but that ignores getting to the water. If you have just carried 45kg twinset you will not be so relaxed, getting up a ladder is harder and so forth. There are pros and cons. Personally I mostly live with the cons so I am sure I am in practice for the dives which require redundancy.

---------- Post added September 28th, 2014 at 07:57 AM ----------

Ok, reading carefully I see you don't use one at all.

 

[Freewillow]

This discussion surprises me. I have been 20+ times on diving vacations all over the world and I have never seen a diver with a pony bottle. While, I am not saying that a pony bottle is useless I am flabergasted :shocked2:.