No redundant gas?

[Jake]

Hello all-

Cave diving is an eventual goal of mine, and I've done a fair amount of reading and research on it. It is my understanding that--regardless of the size of your team--you should have at least one source of backup gas on your person. Is this not correct for most cases?

The reason I ask this question is because I came across this video on myspace tonight. I didn't watch the whole video, but it looks like no one has redundant gas, and they're going through some squeezes where buddy rescue does not seem possible. This is especially the case past about the half way mark.

You might need a myspace account to be able to view the vid. Maybe someone knows of a link to the video somewhere else.

In any event, am I missing something perhaps, or is this as dangerous as it looks to me?

 

[diveAK]

Well, thats not really cave diving... it looked like they were intro to cave at the very best, most likely not even that... (not even gonna get started on what was wrong in that video)

 

[TennInstr]

That was Blue Grotto, a popular cavern dive in Williston, FL. Those folks weren't cave diving or really even cavern diving. OW divers can dive there. I didn't watch the whole vid because it was too boring. The redundant gas you are referrring too is actually your reserves you have by following the "rule of thirds". You typically wear either a high volume single with H-valve or doubles so that you have an actual redundant regulator also. From what I saw they weren't in Tec rigs.

 

[karstdvr]

Personally I hate to see a video like this because it looks like one diver with maybe a cavern cert taking some ow divers into the overhead. I know it is only Blue Grotto,but if the "follow me" attitude is carried to other places such as Royal,then you have a couple fatalities.

 

[brutus_scuba]

Let me preface this by saying my highest certifcation for this level of diving is Cavern, and the one thing I carried away from the Cavern course above all others was not to tempt fate in an overhead enviroment like that. Dont' blur the definition of a cavern. I enjoy diving in caverns. With others who are certified to be there, and even then I liek to make sure I trust the person. That being said:

Did you guys actually watch the video all the way through? I know the begging is from Blue Grotto, but there are points in the video where a kid in a shorty is going past a sign they place at the end of the cavern zone where the cave starts, and then it ends again at Blue Grotto. They really silted the crap out of those caverns and caves. They were using a flutter kick like bats out of hell to stir everythign up. They're lucky someone didnt' get hurt they were at 100' at the bottom of blue grotto.

I agreewith Karstdvr one person there was probably cavern certified guessing by the reel and the frog kick but the rest were just diving above their level of training. I think it's scary that Blue Grotto and Devils Den are OW dive sites.

If anyone recognizes the middle portion of that video I would be interested in knowing the location b/c I really don't think it's Blue Grotto. I thinky they spliced some other location into the middle.

 

[ianr33]

I agreewith Karstdvr one person there was probably cavern certified guessing by the reel and the frog kick but the rest were just diving above their level of training. I think it's scary that Blue Grotto and Devils Den are OW dive sites.

Totally agree with that. The woman that was leading had an H valve and 2 first stages.Not sure if she had a long hose,but if so that gear is appropriate for intro cave dives.

The others? Well,flutter kicking like crazy so silting the place out.Gloves (much harder to follow a line in zero viz,not needed in warm water) and at least one pistol grip light.Obviously not cave trained or equipped and asking to get hurt.

If I was doing anything that stupid I certainly would not be posting it on the web

 

[eandiver]

The other site is Blue Springs up in Orange city. I too am guessing a cavern diver (H-valve and reels) doing a trust me dive with some OW people. Not very bright.

What you saw as far as Blue Springs is concerned is wrong in more ways than one.

For those of you who have been to Blue Grotto have you ever been at the very bottom and turned off your light? Could you see the surface light? I have yet to see light so to me the bottom of BG is a cave.

My .02

 

[billyf]

Well that was Blue Grotto and Blue Springs in Orange City

Blue Grotto is at best an into cavern dive, this is a great place for OW divers to get a taste of what an overhead environment is like. Yes you can go to the bottom which is about 100 feet turn off all lights and see natural light.

Blue Springs is a state park and is an advanced cavern dive. You are only allowed to carry a light if you are certified caver or higher. (not saying they were following the rules)

Now to the divers
One was defiantly Intro Cave or higher, another was cavern or higher, the others were either new cavern divers or OW divers. I would bet they are all cavern or better, look at their gear! You don’t usually see OW divers with can lights, safety reels, long hose, back plate and wing. NONE of them were wearing snorkels!

Now to the question!
A secondary gas (air) source is a good practice, but not a requirement.
In cavern and into cave diving your buddy is a form of alternate air source, using the rule of thirds. 1/3 in, 1/3 out and the last 1/3 in reserve

 

[brutus_scuba]

billyf

It's worth noting I've not taken intro, but after just my cavern I can tell you this. I dont' whale around my arms like that or do that dolphin looking kick where they were moving both fins together and shooting around like a bat out of hell, I don't stir up silt on the ledges with my hand and dont' go off just pounding into walls and what not. As just a cavern diver I have a safety reel and long hose and a transpac and wing. If I had the money i'd buy a can light for night dives.

I do not think that anymore then one of these guys had intro to cave at best. The gear can be bought by any diver. it's the skills that these guys (dont) have that scares me.

 

[eandiver]

Just because you wear the equipment doesn't make you a cavern/cave diver.

The one diver with the hanging/dragging reel and reg is the only one who could remotely be considered a cavern diver and even that is a long shot.