Lost Improperly Tightened 2nd-Stage Regulator

[tursiops]

Isn't is simpler to just close the valve feeding the secondary reg?
I usually simply hand-tight the hose to the second stage. And yes, a couple of times the secondary reg did unscrew partially and some air leakage occurred. In both cases I closed the valve, tightened the hose nut, and opened it again.
One should not rush to the surface for such minimal inconveniences...
We have two regs exactly for being able to overcome easily these situations.

Both regs are on the same valve.

 

[Jcp2]

Both regs are on the same valve.

Angelo uses y valve

 

[tursiops]

Angelo uses y valve

Right, but he seems to have forgotten that most of the rest of the world doesn't!

 

[rhwestfall]

I sense a repeat lecture on the horizon...

 

[SlugLife]

Regulator pressurized but tank valve closed.

It is a good idea to keep decompression gasses (like 50% or 100% oxygen) CLOSED until you expressly open the correct cylinder, after multiple checks. Else there is a risk of breathing unsuitable gas - especially in sidemount diving where reg changes are frequent. Breathing high % oxygen at great depth would not be a good thing. Ok, ok, I have done that, in an emergency I would like to forget. Exposure was short enough and I did not encounter any problems, but it could have ended in a tragedy.

That is a very good procedure, indeed.
Now, repeat it 1000 times without forgetting it once.
This is why we develop good procedures but also introduce redundancy!

That makes sense. A pressurized reg is only about 1 to 2.5 breaths (with 7ft hose), so that would be easy to not notice. I do sidemount, but so far haven't done mixed any gasses. About 11 months ago, I dove without turning on my (redundant) pony-tank, and discovered it about 5-minutes later, by which time the regs were already flooded.

Strongly agreed on the last section & redundancy. I don't trust myself to do literally every check properly, when rushed, distracted, etc. Also for first-dive-of-the-season, I always take it very easy. 30-ft or less and following a shore-line, and from there ramping it up.

Speaking of redundancy, having my regulators clipped or on a necklace makes it VERY difficult to lose one, even if I had precisely the same scenario.

 

[Subcooled]

Strongly agreed on the last section & redundancy. I don't trust myself to do literally every check properly, when rushed, distracted, etc. Also for first-dive-of-the-season, I always take it very easy. 30-ft or less and following a shore-line, and from there ramping it up.

I know some really meticulous divers. Two especially come to mind, that almost got themselves killed because of some incredibly stupid mistakes.

The buddy or dive team came to rescue, so redundancy was there when needed (not in the form of own equipment, but in the form of an alert and capable dive team).

The only reason I can find for these near-death experiences is some random brain fog. I don't know where it comes from, but I definitely know it's lurking around the corner, and it has its preying eyes on me next.

Speaking of redundancy, having my regulators clipped or on a necklace makes it VERY difficult to lose one, even if I had precisely the same scenario.

True, but I dropped a decompression gas reg. It was on that third cylinder that was shaken by every frog kick. The root cause though, was me not adequately tightening the hoses.

Deco regs are neither clipped or on a neck bungee.

 

[SlugLife]

True, but in the worst case yout full AL80 will drain in about 2 minutes, for example a broken LP hose or lost 2nd stage. Best to go directly to the surface and not dally or do a safety stop.

Agreed; the safest thing to do in most scenarios like this, during recreational diving, is to surface immediately at an appropriate rate, inflate your BCD (in case you pass out), and then figure out the problem. Even if there was a technically better thing to do, better to often do the simplest and most reliable thing, especially if there's any chance you might be nacred.

Better to have redundant air of course, but a lot of people don't have that.

You need to maintain #1 a calm mind and #2 a relaxed body as you foes will be panic and CO2. You will have some oxygen though - you have been breathing it at an overpressure, remember.

Thankfully, I've been fairly solid about monitoring my air, which surprises me a little. I've never once been surprised to see 1250 psi or lower.

I was fairly clam during my incident; that's how I've always been. I was in a bad accident (non-diving) once, and I was the one telling everyone else to calm down and stop freaking out, and only then would we address getting me to the hospital.

It happens. You've learnt now to do a pre use gear check rather than relying on a basic pre dive checks

I did similar. I was on Sidemount and the hose detached from my reg when we were at 35m (115'). No drama other than the loud noise from the hose. My SM regs were deliberately hand tight but I didn't check they were fully snugged up

My mistake of course was to spit out the non functioning reg (now not attached). By the time I'd turned off my tank (having switched regs), my wife was dangling the reg she'd fetched from the sand some 5 - 6 m below us, in front of me, laughing at me. I simply put the reg on the hose, switched on the tank and carried on with the dive, and the subsequent dives that weekend (the 1st stage was then rebuilt the following week)

I should have known better, its something I preached to my students, but I didn't. No harm and I have a "it happened to me" story to give to my students as proof we're all fallible.

Thanks for sharing! The built-in redundancy of sidemount, it's pretty awesome that this scenario is a non-emergency.

My side-mount setup has left on necklace, and right clipped to chest-d-dring when not in use, so it reduces, but not eliminates the possibility of losing a reg.

Currently, my procedure is hand-tighten, and then a slight additional "snug" tighten using the XS-scuba-star-tool I mentioned in the first post, and that tool is always in my butt-pouch. If I need to swap, tighten, etc any hose or port-plug, I always have that tool on me. I'm less worried about over-tightening, because it's a relatively small tool, and not something like an 8-inch crescent wrench.

My current (non-professional) opinion is that hand-tight is how I lost a regulator, and a good way to lose a regulator. However, just slightly beyond hand-tighten is ideal.

Okay, I’m missing something here. Who told you guys to only hand-tighten the LP connection hose to the first stage, or the regulator for that matter? It has been standard practice for decades to tighten these down with a wrench so as to preclude this from happening (inadvertent unscrewing of the hose from the first stage). I would not dive a hand-tightened hose fitting.

SeaRat

I forget where I saw/heard it, but I saw it somewhere. I now go just a little beyond hand-tighten, with a small tool, where it feels secure.

Oddly enough, hand tightening 2nd stages was all the rage back in the mid/late 90's in Tech/Cave diving. I did it for years. "Purpose" was if you had a 2nd stage failure, especially on a deco bottle, you could just swap it with your primary and be back in business (and I actually had to do that once coming up from a 200' mix dive). Downside, they blow off. Today in tech/cave circles its not in vogue.

Thanks for the background. Carrying a small tool like the one I mentioned seems MUCH more ideal for the job.

Sounds like the answer is to carry a third unattached second stage in a pocket.

IMO, before we get to anything like that, first is redundant air and rule-of-thirds. While I open-water dive solo, anything like cave, restriction, or deco-diving solo seems like asking for trouble. Unless you're cave-diving, or deco-diving, any time spent trying to fix a reg (other than basic tightening) should probably be spent trying to surface.

Onto the idea itself is interesting, but not practical. (a) The regulator (and hose?) will be flooded, meaning it already needs servicing. (b) If the reg becomes detached at the 1st stage, you'd also need a hose.

 

[SlugLife]

As far as handling a scenario where a 2nd stage becomes dislodged, or even fails in a fully open free flow.....my personal preparedness plan is to always carry a fully on and charged back mount 19cf pony.

As far as buddies go, they can be a nice bonus if I have a problem, but my personal planning and preparedness is to assume no buddy will be available.

Just curious...... why don't 2nd stages connect with a quick connect similar to a BC - LP inflator hose? That way if there was a disconnection there would be little or no loss of primary gas so you could just swap to your alt. Also, all the techie types could carry a spare 2nd stage and just do a quick swap if ever needed...

I'm 100% with you on the 19cu pony. I don't dive without a completely independent redundant air-supply. If you're patient, you could probalby grab a 19cu pony used ~$120, used regs that work ~$80, fill it once, barely use it, and you'll need to rarely fill it. Having a spare set of regs is always good anyway.

I bought a new bottle, had spare regs already, and then transfill the pony using something I scraped together for $40, and keep it around 2500 psi. I take a couple breaths each dive, just to make sure it's good. 19cu is small enough, there's almost no excuse to not carry it every time.

As far as quick-disconnect:

I would weigh the pros and cons: Quick disconnects are a little more bulky/heavy and a little more expensive than a simple thread-on connector. Another disadvantage is that a QD is an added potential failure point. There's also the potential for inadvertently disconnecting, as sometimes happens with a BC inflator. Swapping out a misbehaving second stage for a replacement sounds advantageous, but it is rarely needed (underwater? Pre-dive you can swap out with a wrench). My guess is the pros do not outweigh the cons.

I have some QDs, used them a couple times, but decided they weren't worth it. They're and added failure/complexity point, and swapping a hose or regulator is so easy and quick, there's little point in using them. They also add a little bit of inflexible bulk wherever you install them.

The one advantage might be easier storage, however, you risk getting dust/debris in the hose if you store them unattached.

One should not rush to the surface for such minimal inconveniences...
We have two regs exactly for being able to overcome easily these situations.

Agreed, depending on experience & comfort.

The incident I posted, I had no idea what was going on at the time, only that a massive number of bubbles were coming out of the side of my regulator. For me at that time, surface and fix was the right call. However, today I dive side-mount (redundant air, easier access), am more comfortable, and fixing the same problem underwater wouldn't be a big deal.

 

[SlugLife]

I know some really meticulous divers. Two especially come to mind, that almost got themselves killed because of some incredibly stupid mistakes.

The buddy or dive team came to rescue, so redundancy was there when needed (not in the form of own equipment, but in the form of an alert and capable dive team).

The only reason I can find for these near-death experiences is some random brain fog. I don't know where it comes from, but I definitely know it's lurking around the corner, and it has its preying eyes on me next.

True, but I dropped a decompression gas reg. It was on that third cylinder that was shaken by every frog kick. The root cause though, was me not adequately tightening the hoses.

Deco regs are neither clipped or on a neck bungee.

I don't do any deco-dives yet, however: Pre-dive, I clip my pony-bottle-regulator onto my bottle's upper bolt-snap. Since this is my backup, I usually move the clip to my chest, but if it was a deco bottle, I'd just leave it clipped.

A bonus of doing this, is if you swim through weeds or some entanglement, the reg/hose won't get pulled out of the bungies, and of course I won't lose a reg again if fate strikes twice.

I rarely have alert/capable backup where I dive, unfortunately. I often dive solo, for several reasons (visibility, lack of attentiveness, buddy takes off, etc), but even with a dive-buddy I treat it as if I was diving solo, but might also need to help another diver.

I'm left with (a) lots of redundancy (b) avoid hazards (c) stick 60ft or less most of the time (d) carefully monitor self/air/equipment, and (e) generally take it slow and easy on dives.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Both regs are on the same valve.

That's the error...
My 15 liters steel has two valves!