Nitrox Tank Labels?

[Spectre]

Well.... yes... I use 89% air and the balance is another secret ingredient.

What you making there pugster? I'd have expected you to be using 86% air?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike, here is a picture of a nitrox compressor.

It is the round black cylinder thingy in the lower center of the picture. Nitrox is made in the small silvery vertical cylinder above it and the Nitrox compressor compresses it.

Ummm...thanks. I needed that. LOL

 

[padiscubapro]

What's so different about the ANDI cleaning standards?

I no longer have a shop.

Maybe they should do like some other manufacturers and just sell you a special green one for an extra $100.

Genesis says the same thing. There you go that doesn't leave very many other valves in the world that we can use on our deco bottles does it?

Yes mike but you are STILL a professional and should not be advocating practices (at least in public) that are contrary to manufacturer recommendations. It opens you up top liability problems. You are in essence saying you know better than the people who designed the product.

OMS used to state they were o2 capable (haven't seen anything lately), I have never seen a public sherwood policy.. Diverite doesn't publicly state a policy either.

ANDI's service tech class is extremely complete, its about a 2 day class and is usually combined with a gas blender making it a 3 day class..

Many of the manufacturer's recognize the thoroughness of our program and its has been run at several Scuba equipment manufacturing facilities including scubapro (more than once).

I haven't seen many current service manuals (things are becomming more lax) but I do know several reg manufacturers stated (even though many ignored this) in their service manuals (oceanic was the first I believe) that the only person qualified to do regs for nitrox service were those who took the proper factory class on the reg AND were ANDI service tech certified..

Its too much to just state in a quick message, but here are some basics using manufacturer approved (selesol (restricted sales), blue gold ect )cleaners only not simple detergents(simple green, joy ect aren't approved), maintaing seperate tools for components that are being assembled clean and not mixing them with "dirty" tools, all work should be done using gloves (no bare hands), keeping tools and cleaned componets in sealed bags when not in use, never mixing lubricants even when silicon might work (cross contamination), checking for contaminents and verifying the components are free from contaiments, and above all ALWAYS follow manufacturer recommendations.. Obviously some of this stuff should be common sense, but its more of an attitude.

 

[OE2X]

Well.... yes... I use 89% air and the balance is another secret ingredient.

AaaaHa - a secret ingredient!
Now I know how you are able to stay down so long with so little air. Here I had been thinking you had gills...

 

[lamont]

the sticker is mostly there to stop someone from picking up the tank and using it thinking there is air in - which has O2 toxicity risks

I've rented a lot of nitrox-labelled tanks which contained air without having a nitrox certification. Pretty common. Kind of defeats the purpose of the label if I typically ignore it...

Is a dive shop supposed to keep around a bunch of non-bumper stickered tanks that they rent out to people who get air fills and bumper stickered tanks that they rent out to nitrox divers and never mix the two up? That's not going to happen and when the shops run out of non-bumpered tanks they're just going to rent out nitrox tanks to the people who need air...

End result is that the standard is just dumb.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Yes mike but you are STILL a professional and should not be advocating practices (at least in public) that are contrary to manufacturer recommendations. It opens you up top liability problems. You are in essence saying you know better than the people who designed the product.

The problem with that is very few manufacturers, especially reg manufacturers, will tell you that their regs are ok to use with pure O2. On the other hand we don't suck O2 through a straw while we're on deco. It's slowly changing but if we waited for them we'd all be bent.

I have probably a dozen Zeagle regs and they don't state a policy. Speaking to the engineers they will tell you that they leave it up to the technician to decide what's appropriate.

I Don't know what diverite says but most of their customers are technical divers and they're cewrtainly all using O2. BTW, the very same reg is sold by scubamax (I don't know who manufacturers it).

Tanks are made of steel or aluminum. Regs are brass (most)with a few o-rings. I defy any of these manufacturers or any one else for that matter to get any of it to flame up with 24%...even if the device is absolutely slopped with oil.

After owning a dive shop for 4 years the one group of people I trust the least is some of the manufacturers. They would have you diving pink O2 clean poodle jackets. I'll leave that alone beyond that but I could probably write a book on some of the crap I've seen the manuifacturers pull.

As far as cleaning...I clean all my tanks when I vis them. There's no reason not to. As far as maintaining O2 compatability, I guess you'd need to do all your diving in a clean room which I don't do but if some one is pumping dirty gas, I don't want it no matter what my mix is. LOL

When it comes to manufacturers I'll encourage people to educate themselves so that the manufacturers and dive shops are forced to do the same.

ANDI's service tech class is extremely complete, its about a 2 day class and is usually combined with a gas blender making it a 3 day class..

Many of the manufacturer's recognize the thoroughness of our program and its has been run at several Scuba equipment manufacturing facilities including scubapro (more than once).

I haven't seen many current service manuals (things are becomming more lax) but I do know several reg manufacturers stated (even though many ignored this) in their service manuals (oceanic was the first I believe) that the only person qualified to do regs for nitrox service were those who took the proper factory class on the reg AND were ANDI service tech certified..

I wonder why they're getting more lax? Maybe because it's getting harder and harder to fool people and more and more divers are using O2?

right...and to get a "proper" class from the manufacturer you need to be a dealer. I've had some of those classes that consisted of handing over a check for my opening order over drinks. Then the wall certificate comes in the mail. Others consisted of the sales rep tearing down a reg (one out of their whole line) and putting it together in front of me. I think these "proper" factory classes would be a great place to start the conversation. Others send you the manuals and the wall cert and tell you to stop in at DEMA sometime. That'll be the day.

Its too much to just state in a quick message, but here are some basics using manufacturer approved (selesol (restricted sales), blue gold ect )cleaners only not simple detergents(simple green, joy ect aren't approved), maintaing seperate tools for components that are being assembled clean and not mixing them with "dirty" tools, all work should be done using gloves (no bare hands), keeping tools and cleaned componets in sealed bags when not in use, never mixing lubricants even when silicon might work (cross contamination), checking for contaminents and verifying the components are free from contaiments, and above all ALWAYS follow manufacturer recommendations.. Obviously some of this stuff should be common sense, but its more of an attitude.

Sounds like a fine class but other than the fact that some argue over the use of certain detergents it doesn't sound so different from other cleaning recommendations.

BTW, if you haven't already, take a look at the global products and recommended cleaning processes. They have actually done testing too unlike some of the reg "manufacturers" who just resell something that they don't engineer or manufacture.

I'm not advocating that any one do anything stupid with oxygen. Working with it requires due care and some common sense. I would recommend that divers educate themselves though and read through what Global, IANTD, DSAT and others have to say before being bilked out of thousands by the manufacturers and shops.

But we're getting off the subject. We were talking about big green stickers and tank labeling standards that get divers killed. A shop may want a green banner on a tank because they sell em for $10 each (and the agencies only sell them to the shops) but a diver needs MOD on the tank.

 

[padiscubapro]

Sounds like a fine class but other than the fact that some argue over the use of certain detergents it doesn't sound so different from other cleaning recommendations.

BTW, if you haven't already, take a look at the global products and recommended cleaning processes. They have actually done testing too unlike some of the reg "manufacturers" who just resell something that they don't engineer or manufacture.

The class was based on recommendations by cga, nasa and others, Its nothing new just presented it as a whole package and attitude..

There are a few regs sold for oxygen use.. including the poseidon xtreme.. some o the aqualung products are approved in europe but not in the us.


I haven't seen the latest global stuff, but in the past they did advocate alot of the stuff ANDI has been teaching for over a decade.

 

[MikeFerrara]

There are a few regs sold for oxygen use.. including the poseidon xtreme.. some o the aqualung products are approved in europe but not in the us.

I have no experience with Poseiden but Aqualung has always been in left field with this stuff.

I'm not an Aqualung tech because I couldn't afford the huge opening order they demanded but do you know what's different about their O2 "approved" reg or why it would be approved in europe and not here...and just who it is who has to approve it? My guess is there isn't anything different about the reg (price maybe?) and the approval comes from their legal department.

I could be wrong but if I'm not this is exactly the kind of stuff the diving indusry has way too much of.

 

[NAM001]

At one time i had a reference that basically went this way. No sticker is required is content will be less than 40% ( no OCA required) Obvoiusly if pp blending then you have to have one but not with premixed. The sticker was a limiting item in that if you went to a shop and asked for air, they would not introduce air not hyperfiltered into a tank that required O@ cleaning. the nitrox sticker was only ment for tanks used for mixes greater than 40%. if you only used premix ean32 then the filler could fil with grade e and be ok. On gas with larger O2 levels only (OCA) air with lower hydro carbon count was allowed. this was associated with the recommendation that gas less than 60% reacted like air and if greater than 60% it reacted like pure O2. The 60% was reduced to 40% for a safety factor, as that fit with noaa 32 and 36 emerging in the sport. This is result from nasa apolo O2 fire on the pad.

Since then you have to be O2 clean above what 23% so one could say that now if 23% requires O2 cleaning then only OCA can be introduced into the tank and thus requiring the presence of the sticker.

Litigation over science once again..

 

[RJP]

At one time i had a reference that basically went this way...

At one time this thread was active. However that was EIGHT years ago!

In fact the OP hasn't been back to SB in more than FIVE years.

I'm just saying...

:d