Nitrox Class Without Tables or Math...OK?

[BarryNL]

Again,

no one has YET to show how knowing HOW to calculate MOD, EAD and Best mix without the use of formulae is any less safe than using the formulae.

You think it's evil because YOU don't dive or teach that way. You can keep your elitist attitudes: I want to open up diving to as many as possible.

Mike, I guess you teach your students how not to get narced. You have me beat. I am not nearly as Godlike as you. I only teach them to avoid it all together and how to PAY ATTENTION to their gauges, including the various alarms.

Which agency do you teach nitrox for? I ask because after my PADI nitrox they sent me a course feedback form which basically asked, for every point required in the course, if the instructor had covered that point. Obviously ignoring the maths part of the course would result in some seriously problematic feedback results.

 

[LSDeep]

Which agency do you teach nitrox for? I ask because after my PADI nitrox they sent me a course feedback form which basically asked, for every point required in the course, if the instructor had covered that point. Obviously ignoring the maths part of the course would result in some seriously problematic feedback results.

surely - since padi uses tables they have to cover the math part in order for you to use them. the course in question is sdi's computer nitrox diver course.

 

[LSDeep]

first of all i teach sdi beside other agencies also. the approach with computer based diving is with sdi not only the (here) so heatedly discussed nitrox course but all sdi courses starting with open water. many of the arguments against it seem to come from posters that never had a look in the sdi manual / any exposure to the course. all the basics are still covered as in any other course. the difference is merely that students are not required to memorize formulas and do calculations with pen & paper / calculator / tables, but actually get to use modern tools (the in the meantime widely used dive computer) to do their calculations. while sdi was the first agency to "get rid" of tables as calculation tools and require a computer for all courses they are not alone this days with their use. naui and gue have the decoplanner software (even agency specific versions of the same software) and padi the truly half *****ed e-rdp. all that shows that the trend finally goes to planning with "timely" tools. from experience i can only say, it seems wiser to teach the "average" diver with tools he will actually uses. just try the next time you have divers to hand them tables and let them plan multible dives - the results will be for a good part desasterous. for anybody with a desire to learn the details and formulas there is plenty of supplemental material widely available and courses like advanced nitrox cover it well.
as for the open water on air / open water on nitrox argument - you basically do your open water course on nitrox 21! even if some like to call it enriched air and define that as a mixture of o2 and n2 higher than 21% (convoluted bull...). i guess i would define the air open water as a relic from times when nitrox was devils gas and people using it were at best lunatics. sure the cert agencies dont really have an interest to combine the 2 and lose the profits from one courses materials and cert fees. if you take an ow class nothing would really speak against doing it on nitrox - the basics are the same and the planning would have to be extended a bit for different mixes (but for that we have the computer again...)

little correction, gue has the decoplanner and andi and naui actually use the gap software, sorry

 

[tedtim]

surely - since padi uses tables they have to cover the math part in order for you to use them. the course in question is sdi's computer nitrox diver course.

What we don't know is what we don't know. I just had a look at the SDI site. They don't have much for a description of the courses. A few questions:

1. Based on what I read in a previous post, does SDI curriculum use the dive computer exclusively for the OW course? What type of information is covered regarding dive computers?

2. What does the computer diver specialty cover? (I would guess that this covers the material for folks who previously took the OW course using tables)

3. Is the computer diver specialy a pre-requisite for the computer nitrox diver specialty? (If not, then is the curriculum for the computer diver specialty covered within this computer nitrox diver specialty?)

 

[The Chairman]

i guess i would define the air open water as a relic from times when nitrox was devils gas and people using it were at best lunatics.

You know, I was thinking the very same thing. These are some of the SAME arguments used against NitrOx from the very beginning: We're all gonna DIE!!!

 

[The Chairman]

1. Based on what I read in a previous post, does SDI curriculum use the dive computer exclusively for the OW course? What type of information is covered regarding dive computers?

How to use them instead of tables: both in planning and in how you dive.

2. What does the computer diver specialty cover? (I would guess that this covers the material for folks who previously took the OW course using tables)

Yes, it is designed to have an instructor teach you how to competently use a computer. When to trust and more importantly, when NOT to trust it.

3. Is the computer diver specialy a pre-requisite for the computer nitrox diver specialty? (If not, then is the curriculum for the computer diver specialty covered within this computer nitrox diver specialty?)

It is not a prerequisite, but you should own a NitrOx computer BEFORE you take the course. I do provide one in class if you don't, but I would MUCH prefer that you learn on your own.

 

[JS1scuba]

Having written 3 books on nitrox and the section in the noaa diving manual on nitrox I can tell you that the SDI Easy Nitrox course is just perfect for simple recreational nitrox diving.

Most divers today use a dive computer. Most dive computers today are set up for nitrox. Oxygen analysers are easy to use and readily available.

The SDI Easy nitrox course shows you to take advantage of extended no-stop dive times using nitrox and your computer.

Some simple rules:

• analyse your gas
• determine Maximum operating depth
• program your dive computer
• put breathing thing in mouth
• go dive
• do not exceed MOD
• stay within no-stop limites
• come up with gas still in your tank

If you don't use a dive computer and have no desire to use one then the TDI nitrox course is for you. That course uses tables and EAD charts.

I am confident that Pete will teach an outstanding course.

Enjoy

 

[LSDeep]

just a little add on to doc - yes it is exclusively used, the instr. could integrate tables, but i think it would defeat the purpose.

 

[LSDeep]

Having written 3 books on nitrox and the section in the noaa diving manual on nitrox I can tell you that the SDI Easy Nitrox course is just perfect for simple recreational nitrox diving.

Most divers today use a dive computer. Most dive computers today are set up for nitrox. Oxygen analysers are easy to use and readily available.

The SDI Easy nitrox course shows you to take advantage of extended no-stop dive times using nitrox and your computer.

Some simple rules:

• analyse your gas
• determine Maximum operating depth
• program your dive computer
• put breathing thing in mouth
• go dive
• do not exceed MOD
• stay within no-stop limites
• come up with gas still in your tank

If you don't use a dive computer and have no desire to use one then the TDI nitrox course is for you. That course uses tables and EAD charts.

I am confident that Pete will teach an outstanding course.

Enjoy

couldnt have said it better myself LOL

 

[LSDeep]

just another afterthought regarding the "tables as backup" argument. the use of tables as a backup is quite limited and questionworthy when diving before with a computer. if you use your computer to dive multilevel and extended time you will be hard pressed to come up with a good bailout / con tinuing diving plan. you would be simply better of with a backup computer. as for - if you dive with your computer all the time within table limits - why did you spend the money on a computer in the first place????